Bouts of Perverted Syllogism.
This is one comment on my blog which I greatly appreciate. It came from a commentator named Ajip whose identity is unknown to me. I reproduced his comments here. ajip said... hebat la datuk sak 07 April 2009 21:24 Thank you Ajip, whoever you are. Because in my blog written in Kuala Kangsar this afternoon (7th April) I said; Against this background and supplanted by my observations on the scene, my prediction for Bukit Gantang will be as follows; PAS will take the Kuala Sepetang and Changkat Jering DUNs while UMNO will marginally win Trong. No I am not a clairvoyant. Perhaps I have benefited from my addictive reading of Sherlock Holmes. Plus I see what the UMNOniks refused to appreciate. Now it's my turn to turn the tables. When I supported and predicted that KJ will win, so many were irate over my analysis. Before my prediction this morning, I have downplayed the role of TDM for which I received many uncomplimentary and contemptuous remarks. Now, I am thinking, maybe I will do a write up on categorical syllogism. It goes like this. Politicians are liars. TDM is a politician. Therefore TDM is a liar. UMNO is corrupt. TDM is UMNO. Therefore TDM is corrupt. You get the drift? It was only recently that UMNO people and some bloggers have participated in an orgy of perverted syllogism. The falsity of their logic went like this. KJ was around in Permatang Pauh. UMNO lost. KJ must be the cause. KJ was around in KT and UMNO lost. Once again, KJ must be the cause. Since people were very quick off the mark and over eager to infer that KJ is responsible and blameable for any UMNO losses, how about I do the same thing with TDM? Are you ready? What shall I say and infer about TDM's presence and involvement that led to the losses in Bukit Gantang and Bukit Selambau? If the logic by which we judged KJ is permitted, then we can infer that TDM has been responsible for the losses at Bukit Selambau and Bukit Gantang. That inference will be strengthened further because BN won in Batang Ai IN THE ABSENCE OF TDM! The only conclusion that is permitted given these events is that UMNO without Mahathir is better off than UMNO with Mahathir! At Bukit Selambau in fact, Mukhriz Mahathir is particularly vulnerable since he was treated as though he was the candidate for Bukit Selambau. Can I then associate the loss of Bukit Selambau with Mukhriz Mahathir? But I shall not do it because of my personal highest regard for TDM. I honour him for his leadership but my homage is not founded on blind adulation! The morale of the story: the efforts to link and blame KJ for any losses incurred by UMNO are blatantly moronic and brainless just as if I were to blame TDM for the losses at Bukit Gantang and Selambau. That is the logic subscribed to by the purveyors of perverted syllogism.
prediction tepat
Changkat Jering...Pas menang 16++
Kuala Sepetang....Pas menang 22++
Trong....Pas tewas 9++
tahniah PAS
51 comments:
Bro Sak
Your logic is irrefutable. Your forecasting is quite flawless. Your reductive analysis points to the sheer absurdity of shallow thinking on the part of sections of the UMNO herd-mentality. This is a disease that is endemic in other BN components also.
When and, how, will these mental shackles be removed?
This is the challenge for UMNO and BN. Otherwise, the writing is very much on the wall.
ak47,
I don't think its appropriate enough to blame KJ for permatang pauh and KT, its too simplistic to say BN lost because of KJ's presence.
Its more like this, if you approach any Malaysian anywhere around Malaya, and ask them what do they think about Khairy Jamaluddin. Trust me, almost everyone hates him.
While without the presence of KJ in PP and KT BN still would have lost, I'd say they would lose through a smaller margin, or win with a slim margin (although not in PP).
The marginal effect of KJ presence will cause BN to lose votes.period. Do a small survey. In Bukit Gantang and Selambau, the UMNO divisions themselves requested KJ not to be present. Why? They want to bank on as many local UMNO votes as possible, as the locals who want to vote for BN would have felt disgusted or
''meluat'' with KJ's presence.
While you might not feel that because KJ makes you economically more well off(plus the free dato'), most Malaysians do.
The presence of Tun M brings in an aura of comfort to the rural Malays. Thats a fact. Its the opposite of what KJ brings to the table. Same goes for Mukhriz, as the Malays see Tun's face and genuineness in Mukhriz.
Most people know KJ has a huge hand in Malaysia's administration under Abdullah Ahmad Badawi. No matter how much you deny that, kita semua tahu, dan takkan percaya any ''denial''.
So, in effect, KJ reminds the voters of all that is wrong with Malaysia. He's rudeness, arrogance and ''kurang ajarness'' in the by-elections itself makes things even more worse.
Hi Dato',
I think these people knew all along they were talking rubbish but they decided to keep on repeating this message because of the Goebbles philosphy of propaganda.
Hopefully, right now, they will have a certain degree of dignity and cease and desist at once this 'wet thread' they are trying to straighten. (I know it sounds much better in Malay).
PM Najib should continue on the One Malaysia concept and not be distracted by the old score settling that we have come to object and abhor.
HMB,
Bold words to state that Dato has received one penny from KJ. Do you have any proof to back it up?
The last time I heard some one make a statement blah blah blah period it was one lady from ethos saying that 'private equity delivers value. Period.'
Let me add one more,
HMB , your talking rubbish. Period
''HMB,
Bold words to state that Dato has received one penny from KJ. Do you have any proof to back it up?''
No, I don't. Pardon me, and let me rephrase that;
While you might not feel that because KJ perhaps makes you economically more well off(plus ''perhaps'' the free dato'), most Malaysians do.
Do notice the word ''perhaps''. Its an assumption, and I could perhaps be wrong.
and the rest of what I wrote is from an honest observation, I hope those who want to argue against me please argue with facts... not just say ''its rubbish''.. I think we're smarter than that.
hikayat mamak bendahara
you said:-
While you might not feel that because KJ perhaps makes you economically more well off(plus ''perhaps'' the free dato'), most Malaysians do.
then, may i offer you a theory of possibilities? a theory just like your insurance cover of the term perhaps, is an untested opinion. hence in that light:-
perhaps that is why Mukhriz lost; because the mamak bendaharas who are his followers have this habit of allowing what is suppose to exit from the rear end of the human anatomy, to now come out from their mouths.
but that is a theory only- an untested hypothesis. haha
Hikayat Mamak Bendahara,
Without leaders like KJ, Umno will lose all fence-sitters' and non-Malay votes.
How come in the March 08 general election, KJ won with a bigger majority (5K +) than Mukhriz(2K +) ? That shows not everyone hates KJ and not everyone loves Mukhriz.
Good one Dato :)
Hikayat Mamak Bendahara,
I'm not a member of Umno or any political party. I'm just a peaceful and quiet voter and at present I'm pro-Pakatan. When I watched Tun Dr M talk on TV yesterday, I felt as if I wanted to drive straight to Bukit gantang (all the way from Kemaman) to campaign for Pakatan Rakyat. Remember 1999? Datuk Najib himself survived by 200 votes!
''How come in the March 08 general election, KJ won with a bigger majority (5K +) than Mukhriz(2K +) ? That shows not everyone hates KJ and not everyone loves Mukhriz.''
Air minuman beracun, suspicious recounts reported by Malaysiakini then was forcefully retracted after KJ wrote a threatening letter to Mkini.. hmm what else.. reports of open ''money for votes'' campaign in Rembau, anecdotes of KJ entering the vote counting room in Rembau... etc, etc... I don't think the people in Rembau really like KJ.. go ask them..
oh yea, all unproven. Rubbish right?
Lembaga displin UMNO sent some love letters, sugar and flowers to KJ not to long ago. Takkan sudah lupa?
as for the pemuda UMNO election, I think the floor made it clear enough how KJ won, if you want a better analysis, refer to this;-
http://anotherbrickinwall.blogspot.com/2009/03/khairy-akan-digugur.html
Itu semua cerita lama, and most ppl already forgotten about it, but back to the topic of discussion, I think I threw your argument into piece, and the only thing you can do is insult me with unrelated trash. Go back to the main topic, and please trash what I said. I love to be proven right time and time again. :P
mamak bendahara.
you said:-
I think I threw your argument into piece, and the only thing you can do is insult me with unrelated trash. Go back to the main topic, and please trash what I said. I love to be proven right time and time again. :P
don't know who you referring to, but if its to me, i say:-
only in your imagination. don't flatter yourself.
Sak,
Already some are claiming that Tun M had succeeded in bringing some votes back to BN... and the results would be far worse without the Tun's help.
Never mind that Pakatan actually won with increased majorities in places that were BN strongholds two years ago. Never mind that one was a rookie going against an MIC giant. Its "tai-chi" time...
I won't be surprised if UMNO splits into 3 main factions from this two defeats... the Najib camp (who'll try to break Tun's control), the Mahathir camp, and the Khairy camp (but Badawi probably couldn't care less about helping).
That's not something that UMNO/BN needs at this time... but ah, what the heck...
Najib will not be able to survive without Mahathir, and Khairy & goons hardly has any grassroot support in UMNO unless the rempits decides to submit their UMNO forms(I think the 4th floor will need to fill in their forms given their level of literacy).
AK47,
Anyone who visits your blog, and reads your ''brilliant'' argument would then read the comments. After they read my comment, they might think you're talking rubbish as I have shredded your arguments into piece. No damage control?
I am pro Pakatan and i must say reading this, KJ winning is a GOD sent to us.
I hope Najis does NOT pick KJ for a Minister post and lets all pray 2camps at least develop internally in UMNO.
HMB 01:12
I agree with you, except that part about KJ making Sak more well off.
Is it true that KJ was asked not to appear at the scene this time? Would appreciate knowing your kind of sources on this info. And very little Pemuda helping out in the campaign?
I'd also like to hear from anyone else who has info and/or sources on the above.
If only Mike Tyson won as well at that time ..
Then we all can have PR party until GE13 haha ..
Salam Tok Sak,
It's become a battlefield now. Glad to see Wenger and Dato Bendahara are also here.
Youths contribute significant number of votes. KJ has somehow painted UMNO with more dirt. For instance KJ's recent victory further strengthens the belief among youths that UMNO is synonym to corruption.
You mentioned before that UMNO youth doesn't need an angle as a leader. But a devil to the public eye doesn't help much either.
I wish I could be wrong, that KJ may come out with brilliant ideas to get the fence sitting youths to join, support and put their effort for UMNO. However looking at current matters it sound like a miracle. Perhaps Wenger has the answer.
Wassalam.
WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS WHY CAN'T KJ ORGANISE THE MAT REMPITS, ILLEGAL RACING AND IDLING YOUTHS INTO PRODUCTIVE ACTIVITIES, COMPUTER CLASSES, HEALTHY COMPETITIONS, GOTONG ROYONG AND SO ON.
HAVE THHEY NOT HEARD OF GOTONG ROYONG AND THE LIKE?
Hikayat M.Bendahara
Perhaps you are economically well off because TDM and MM looks after your periuknasi?No datoship yet but promised later..from TDM's influence or MM strong recommendation?
O thats why you're working so hard with your shithead and longkang tongue!
O yes you're a 'smart and glib-tongue' bendahara/ rubbish shredder!You do have an important role in the Anti-KJ camp then!Smelly job but well-paid for sure.
Untuk dibandingkan KJ yang sudah menjadi 'advance PM' selama 5 tahun 5 bulan berbanding dengan Najib yang baru 5 hari menjadi PM dan Tun yang kembali semula kepada UMNo baru 4 hari sebagai faktor kekalahan tentulah perbandingan nakal yang disengajakan.
Harapan untuk membaiki kerosakan selama lebih 5 tahun dalam masa 5 hari mungkin satu niat jahat bagi Sak dan sekutunya.
Malahan Tun sendiri pernah menggesa Paklah melepaskan jawatan segera kerana Najib memerlukan masa yang panjang (5 tahun) untuk mengembalikan semula kekuatan UMNO dan bila proses ini dilewatkan, apa yang Tun jangkakan sudahpun berlaku.
Tun juga menggesa supaya perwakilan memilih yang bersih dari rasuah tetapi bekas pesalah dan banduan yang diberi maaf tetap dipilih sebagai ketua.
Tun masih menggesa supaya Najib menggunakan kuasanya untuk senaraikan barisan kabinet bersih sebagai peluang terakhir dan jika Najib gagal berbuat demikian, dia akan menempah apa yang Tun jangkakan.
Tun memang sebagai faktor kekalahan kerana apa yang dijangkakannya betul dan apa yang disarankan sejak zaman paklah tidak dihiraukan.
KJ selama 5 tahun 5 bulan sebagai Advance PM dan kini KP selama 10 hari...kenapa dia belum jadi aset dan benih baik untuk UMNO !!!
If he does, his image would improve tremendously. Imagine people thinking of him as the productive, down-to-earth kind.
Kluangman.
Engko ni dah gila dan merapu terbang dalam blog Dato' sak tuduh dia ada niat jahat! Kena bat rabies?
Ini lah akibat orang yang dah terlalu taksub pada seseorang pemimpin! Orang lain semua jahat! Kluang memang buta kan? Ye tak ye!
''Hikayat M.Bendahara
Perhaps you are economically well off because TDM and MM looks after your periuknasi?''
No. As a human being, I have needs beyond money;like a sense of belonging, and hope for my country-patriotism.
Tun M and Mukhriz are our only viable hope, unless you think a sodomizer is worthy of the Prime Minister-ship.
''No datoship yet but promised later..from TDM's influence or MM strong recommendation?''
No promises, I haven't met Tun M or Mukhriz, ever -they perhaps don't even know I exist.
If Tun M or MM wants to recommend me for a Datoship then I wouldn't say no. What an honor!
''O thats why you're working so hard with your shithead and longkang tongue!''
I would like to quote Tun M ''makan cili, rasa pedas''
''O yes you're a 'smart and glib-tongue' bendahara/ rubbish shredder!You do have an important role in the Anti-KJ camp then!Smelly job but well-paid for sure.''
Yes, well paid. I am serving my country, and in return everyone will live in a better Malaysia in the future. Well paid indeed!!
btw, I am still waiting for Ak47's reply.
ps- I think you can contact the ''4th floor'' if you need some help.
ps2-to all the paid-setiakawan boys, Khairy Jamaluddin is worth almost RM1.38 billion. I think he's paying you guys peanuts... ask your sugar-daddy for some real cash.
Hikayat Mamak B.
Except for your over-adulation for TDM and MM, it looks like you've got all the answers from Dato' sak! 'SMART' shithead afterall!
So ONLY YOU have a sense of belonging and is patriotic to the country?? SHIT!
alamak.. ingatkan bila umno dapat ketua baru.., semua akan bersatu dan menguatkan saf,,,
tapi ada jugak bloggers umno yg kutuk org umno jugak.. mana le tak angin ahli umno yg lain....
cam ni.. bungkus je lah umno ni... sbb ahli politik umno yg sepatutnya merapatkan balik barisan, terus mengutuk umno dalam blog diorang... pas tuh bertempik sorak le org pembangkang...
org Tambun.
Dato,
A man went to see his doctor.
“ I dunno doc. When I touched my head it hurts. When I touched my chest it hurts. When I touched my stomach it hurts. Which ever part of my body I touched, it hurts. What is wrong with me doc?”
After a thorough check up, the doctor said,
“ You have a broken finger”
UMNO / BN ‘s body may ached all over but maybe the medication is a simple ones that all the higher ups in the party had known all these years but reluctant to prescribe due to money and power that maybe at stake to themselves. Unpopular moves. Of course after very PRK , whoever lead the BN campaign will say that a thorough postmortem will be conducted to rectify weakness with the latest being Muhyiddin. At this rate BN will bleed to death before the first hurdle in PRU13.
Adding to the fact that even DSN cannot fathom the reasons how Azeez Baling can squeeze into MT instead of the Ghani or Adnan, can we foresee that UMNO will be on the upward trend?
Personally, I feel that all the 2.3 million UMNO members (minus the 2300 delegates in PWTC and the 10k odds division and branch committee members who were rewarded beforehand) are taken for a ride all these years. And when these 2.2++ mil people woke up from their slumber- PAS will have a couple of mil new members.
P/S. With due respect to whatsoever reason that you may have in saying that KJ is the best to lead Pemuda UMNO. Afraid of him being a liability to lead the Pemuda charge in BG and BS proved that UMNO /BN knows that he is…well….scumb…opsssss….liability. How else can you explain his absence from the frontlines?
Dato,
Tidakkah dato' merasa malu, rumah kata pergi, kubur kata mari, masih nak kutuk2 org dan cari salah org hanya utk tunjukkan diri lagi bagus.
Dato' kalau nak tunjuk KJ bagus atau diri dato' bagus dan sapa2 lagi bagus, takyah kutuk org.
Orang yg bagus dia tak kutuk org tak peduli apa org kata tapi dia buktikan dia bagus, tanpa label dan buat remarks macam2 hanya utk menaikkan diri sendiri supaya nampak lagi bagus.
Tak malu kah dato' dah tua pun masih mencari dosa lagi. Bukan nya nak tambah pahala.
Aku heran cemana atok yg tak suka keturunan mamak, boleh suka pulak cina, india dan omputih.
Kalau org tu berfikiran terbuka dan berfikiran sperti yg beliau sediri canangkan, aku merasa hairan bila melihat beliau mengeji keturunan mamak?
Mungkin basis prinsip atok berkenaan kaum tu patut dipertikaikan.
bila dato ni tegur, dia kena rasa malu. bila orang lain tegur, takde rasa malu.
malu lah yang membuat melayu mundur. malu na kutuk keangkuhan pemimpin UMNO, malu nak kutuk pemonoplian kuasa oleh geng2 tua. mahathir surat khabar lama pun tak malu di heret ke dalam gelanggang.
saya tak faham- mahathir 84 tahun, tak muda. kubur kata lagi cepat mari. rumah kata segeralah berambus. lagi tak malu.
Nampaknya persaingan sengit antara Dato' Sakmongkol+setiakawan joker boys dengan regu Berani Berubah yang diketuai oleh Dato' Bendahara&Piggy Singh& Kluangman.
Dato' Bendahara telah menghantar pukulan pertama yang cukup mantap dan Sakmongkol masih belum boleh menangkis atau membalas pukulan itu. Sakmongkol kelihatan tidak bermaya dan tidak berani berhadapan dengan fakta2 Dato' Bendahara. Setiakawan joker boys seperti biasa, tidak berguna, ketua mereka, SUKJ telah pupus dari Blogosphere kerana makan banyak sangat Kunyit masakan Mamak(KJ).
Dato' Sakmongkol diramalkan akan terus mengelak daripada menjawab soalan2 Dato' Bendahara dengan alasan2 yang bodoh dan tidak munasabah.
Seperti biasa, team setiakawan akan memainkan pelbagai teknik kotor, tetapi regu Berani Berubah yang mendapat restu daripada Tun M yang akhirnya akan muncul sebagai pasukan juara!
KJ PERGI BERKEMPEN KAT BUKIT GANTANG LAH...
APA CERITA YG CAKAP DIA TAK PERGI..
JANGAN NAK BUAT CERITA MENGARUT YG BILA KJ TAKDE, UMNO DI BKT GANTANG KALAH.
HAKIKATNYA, KJ TURUN PADANG JUGAK JUMPA PENGUNDI. TU YG BUAT DEPA MENYAMPAH TU
Tuk Sak, I enjoy reading your emotion-less analysis. If only more UMNO supporters are like you and are elected into leadership, UMNO or even BN will not be in such a dire straits. Your talent is wasted in UMNO.
And still this HMB/Piggy Singh fellaS wants to blame it on Khairy..don't know whether to laugh or cry. Only the most unrepetantant anti khairy's will believe this garbage, these people are just incorrugible and when you argue with them, you end being dragged into their twisted and warped ways
KJ had to campaign quietly, and when he arrived he had to play a quiet role because of the Tun factor. But in Bukit Gantang the Pemuda Machinery welcomed him and its a shame that UMNO lost, but we must stop looking to the past for answers to our present and future predicament.
Pemuda UMNO
Pemuda UMNO 11:35
If you can give some proofs that KJ was there, his credibility, and yours, would go up. Otherwise people like you would just be treated as the young ...
Seriously, we who did not go there, need you to elaborate. Tell us who he met, where exactly he went, who accompanied him, what he did to the voters, and so on. But important to tell us who can corroborate, other than your group. Any reliable elders, or Divisional committee members who are not in KJ camp or have vested interest, who can testify?
Please give details of your statement "in Bukit Gantang the Pemuda machinery welcomed him .."
If he and Pemuda helped like bringing voters to polling stations, it would endear him and Pemuda to the Malays, even when BN lost. Yet Dato Sakmongkol, a strong KJ supporter who was there, did not mention KJ being there, quietly or otherwise.
Pemuda UMNO 11:35
If we cannot look to the past to solve the present predicament and save the future, then we can never learn from our mistakes, can we?
Then we would be following the law of the jungle, like many of us have been doing in the recent past.
We must save UMNO, we must save the Malays, we must protect our country from bad elements. Let's look everywhere to know what our mistakes are, correct them and avoid them in order to have a better future.
anon 9.34
Adoi! Dosa orang nampak tapi dosa diri sendiri tak jaga! Engkau ni lebai sangat ke? Kalau dah warak sangat takyah lah mengomen orang lain! Engko mengutuk Dato' sak tapi engko pasti ke engko sebenarnya lagi menyetan! Pahala dosa semua orang Islam tahulah! Takpayahlah nak ceramah agama pada orang lain!
Tu TDM lagi tua tak sedar dosa dia berkepok masa jadi PM. Sekarang pun masih tak sedar diri!
Patutnya engko nasihat pada dia! Ni nak nasihat pada orang biasa macam Dato' sak! Engko ni butahati dan kelabu mata dah!Pilih bulu rupanya!
the results could have been much better if KJ is suspended before the by-elections after evidence of his money politics were found
the writer is still nursing an old score with TDM
Tok Sak,
No need for the blame game... "PADEDOH" speaks for itself... I'm pretty sure the rakyat can differentiate a party that "lets people with proven money politics get away scott-free" with those of at least "ada malu"... this will be further assessed in the new cabinet line-up... if people with "known" money politics get selected to become ministers or dep. ministers, then I'm sure rakyat will remember that too and cast their votes likewise in GE13. Its a question of credibility & integrity, the hallmarks of good leadership, as you once said?
ye, bulu paksak tak elok sebab tu aku marah! hehehehahahahohoho
9:04,
paku dulang, paku serpih, mengata orang awak yg lebih.
Bukan ke pak sak dan wenger dan kutu2nya pun sokong gila babas sama itu King Joli (KJ)...
* "joli" dari perkataan "joli sakan"
12:36
In that case, what u suggest means you are looking for future, not past.
As an example of Looking past is like Pak Sak with his anger to TDM.
Pak sak ni asik komplen org aja, pastu ramal2, aku tak nampak pun cadangan dia yg membina. Kasi rejam org sana sini adala. KJ budak itam tu cam dewa aja. Melayu animisme lagi tok ni. Ada unsur pendewaan lah. Syirik tu.
Bikin buruk nama org ada. Tapi bila dia cuba dewa2kan KJ, yg gua sikit fishy ni.
Relex la tok, aku pun blum bodoh lagi tok. Ramai lagi yg belum jugak menjadi bodoh.
Anon 16:07
Yes, your example is correct.
We need to look at the reasons for Dato Sak's unhappiness with TDM. Remember, he has repeatedly said he has high regard for TDM, but nobody is perfect, as TDM himself recently admitted and said he does not mind criticism.
And, you must appreciate that a man is a real man when he is willing to admit his mistakes. TDM admitted his mistake in putting TAB as his successor. No doubt it was convenient because he wanted TAB to resign. But when we see mistakes made, we avoid them in future - not just TDM but everybody.
The problem is that so many men are not real men these days. We must try to do whatever we can to make these men real men. You all in Pemuda UMNO can do a lot.
Anon 15.53
tadi engko bagi syarahan suruh buat pahala..alih2 dah mencarut pulak! Engko memang kaki mengintai bulu ala lebai temberang!
Nampak sangat quality perangai engko. Baguslah tu.
Anon 15.53
tadi engko bagi syarahan suruh buat pahala..alih2 dah mencarut pulak! Engko memang kaki mengintai bulu ala lebai temberang!
Nampak sangat quality perangai engko. Baguslah tu.
If you were from NS you would have known how KJ had won the elections.
I had been to many obscure places and yet to come across any non-Malay spoke good of KJ. What had been highlighted by HMB had all its truism.
ini datok dia kecewa,tu lah datok..dulu masa jadi yb dok menghabiskan masa di KL je...jarang bebenor turun kawasan..bila tak lekat calon pilihanraya tembak orang tu tembak orang ni...
datok ni tak lama lagi join parti sebelah sana la...tak percaya kita tunggu la dua tiga tahun lagi..
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