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Sakmongkol ak 47

Monday, 9 March 2009

The Education Minister and VP candidate hears disturbing news…


A comment by an anonymous commentator to my article about the teaching of Science and maths in English is how else I can say it? Very telling of the state of current political hypocrisy. Notwithstanding all the brouhaha, it will be business as usual for the government.

Anonymous said...

Eventually the decision will be ground breaking and a reflection of the leadership's resolve, vision and care of the rakyat.No stone will be left unturned to ensure that the rakyat is happy. The future of the children is not important as that will be someone else's problem.

All teachers involved in the program will be given goodies such as free mineral water,"I luv PM " tee shirts and a signed certificate from the PM.Its a great honor indeed.

To enhance the initiative, a further Rm 3.5 billion direct negotiated contract will be expedited for supply of hardware and software,

A high level committee comprising of the guys in white,Umno head honchos and university professors will also be established to do whatever it is they need to do.A special grant of Rm 200 million will also be entrusted to this committee to engage and establish whatever they can think of.

A special task force of 120 high level officials and Ministers will conduct arduous study trips to all countries (except African ,sub Sahara,Mongolia)to study in depth on the pedagogy adopted.Of particular interest will be Perth,Las Vegas,London and Milan.

A consultant will also be appointed to review and study the issue at hand and to come up with a new Master plan with nice,colorful presentations.A PR firm will also be engaged to rebrand the whole exercise.An events management company will be entrusted with scheduling launches of the new branding in all state capitals.

A special zone for Maths and Science (MSZ) will be developed in all corridors.A Rm 2 billion direct nego contract will be awarded to ensure success of this new concept.No other countries in the whole world have embarked on this ground breaking innovative MSZ before.The zones will have hotels,commercial complex,CIQ and an IPP.

09 March 2009 19:39

Whoever this anonymous is, I thank him for saying what actually needs to be saying. He has done it in a most erudite manner. The response from the present government leaders is so predictable. I feel remiss if his views are not shared with a wider audience.

So when the Menteri Pelajaran, the man who inherited the UMNO mantle because he is an Onn, says that the PPSMI was masterminded by politicians with hidden agenda, I can only managed a gobsmacked smirk at his perfidious response.

What? Was the participation by a few opposition politicians in the Language March, provide this minister with a fortuitous excuse to hide away his ineptness? Did it give him a chance to asphyxiate the public with a distended explanation? He knew this was coming and pleaded innocence and a hurt feeling at being reviled at so near a time to the UMNO General Assembly.

Thus the outpouring of public sentiments condemned and decried by the leadership establishment will be used by the cunning operatives in this government to carry out the very steps outlined by our erudite commentator. The Language March and whatever it symbolised was just what the backroom boys needed to boost up sagging image of the government. Not to mention of course, the immense opportunities to make tons of money. And of course the main beneficiary of political dividends will be the education minister. Nothing is too much nor too big a sacrifice for the common good.


Shiok Guy 9 March 2009 at 22:21  

Why can't we just go back to 100% English like the good old day?

My small little poll (still growing) seems to confirm that we Malaysia want English as medium of instruction from Secondary onward.

Take part in the poll here

Shiok Guy

Anonymous,  9 March 2009 at 22:46  

Good leaders have to make the tough decisions..if its the right one..even if it will invoke lots of complaints,political negativism...

For instance...reversing the toll increases was a bad decision because the govt have to pay compensation instead.The actual users of the tolled hiways benefits but they are being subsidised by the general populace .. its the poor (who can't afford cars and stays in remote kampungs) supporting the affluent guys in the city.The mak cik in the kampung is paying the toll for Mr Mukhriz Cayenne?

Similarly on this PPMSI program >> the assumption is that the rural kids can't be taught English.I was pretty rural myself and my parents can speak English only to the extend of saying gostan (go astern),gohed (go ahead)...but I was taught "a man and a pan" and I have progressed pretty well henceforth.

But the point is we shouldn't make decisions affecting our nation's future based on SMS polling (Mawi should be PM )...if the PPMSI program was bad we should have scraped it many eons ago.

And if we believe PPMSI is the correct decision...then we have to go out and explain to the masses even at the risk of being unpopular,losing our position etc etc...we can't always hide behind committees and special task force.

Don't ppl just commented that our students get excellent grades but are unemployable?

paperlesshomework,  10 March 2009 at 00:33  

The whole problem is the poor use of technology to improve English in schools.

If you study carefully the kind of technologies being used to teach English in schools, you would notice most are failures as the tools used are rich men's tools trying to reach the poor men in rural areas.

This is not a local problem but rather a global problem of wrong use of ICT tech in Education.

It does not matter how much money is spent .. the current system will never work.. CDs and flash online systems.

Look at this presentation and you would understand.

Anonymous,  10 March 2009 at 00:45  

Sangkalan Terhadap PAGE

Oleh Shaharir Mohamad Zain

Berikut ialah sangkalan Gerakan Mansuhkan PPSMI (GMP) terhadap pandangan PAGE yang disiarkan di Berita Minggu 1 Mac 2009 ms 36-37.

Aspirasi dan Sokongan PAGE

Pertamanya PAGE ingin menunjukkan kekuatannya dengan mengatakan selepas Persidangan Meja Bulat Ogos 2008, pihak PAGE berusaha mendapat “mandat dan jemput wakil PIBG, sekolah di Lembah Kelang”, dan “dalam masa sebulan dapat 2,000 individu dan 240 buah sekolah yang meminta PPSMI dikekalkan.”

Beliau tidak pula mendedahkan hasil Persidangan Meja Bulat itu (ada ahli GMP yang berjaya menyelinap masuk secara sah) penyokong PPSMI, termasuk ketua besar PAGE yang dibenarkan berucap itu, hanya sekitar 30% sahaja!

Agaknya PAGE kecewa dengan persidangan itulah yang sebenarnya menyebabkan PAGE berusaha selama dua bulan itu. PAGE harus insaf juga bilangan dua ribu dan 240 buah sekolah di Lembah Kelang yang diperolehnya itu langsung tidak boleh mewakili puluhan ribu sekolah seluruh Malaysia.

Bahkan tidak boleh mewakili Lembah Kelang pun. Kalau kita andaikan hasil tinjauan TV7 selama setengah jam selang berita jam lapan malam suatu masa dahulu (sekitar beberapa bulan sebelum Meja Bulat itu, kalau tak salah) ternyata sekitar 70% penonton TV7 pada masa itu tidak menyokong PPSMI.

Bercakap tentang PIBG—kerana PAGE tak puas hati dengan pendirian wakil Presiden PIBG Malaysia di persidangan Meja Bulat itu—beberapa hari yang lepas sahaja Presiden PIBG Malaysia menyatakan (menerusi akhbar Malaysia kini; akhbar perdana memang tidak menyiarkannya, yang tentunya menggembirakan PAGE!) bahawa 8 ribu PIBG seluruh Malaysia menentang PPSMI.

Pembaca juga tidak tahu profil penyokong PAGE (yang seramai 2 ribu individu di Lembah Kelang itu, orang-orang besar PAGE dan jurucakap 240 buah sekolah itu).

Adakah mereka ini guru-guru pakar sains dan matematik dan sebagainya? Adakah mereka ini kebanyakannya memang tidak menggunakan bahasa Inggeris di rumahnya?

Cuba bandingkan profil 68 orang Profesor bidang “sains dan matematik” yang menyatakan secara bertulis (atas sebuah memorandum) yang menentang dasar PPSMI sejak awal pengenalan dasar ini; dan Badan Bukan Kerajan (BBK) yang menyatakan sokongan kepada GMP kini mencecah ratusan yang antaranya termasuklah beberapa buah persatuan yang khusus untuk ahli sains dan matematik, dan sebuah Majlis Profesor yang terdiri daripada semua profesor bidang “sains dan matematik” UKM.

Tidak menjejaskan martabat bahasa Melayu

PAGE membuat aritmetik yang tidak tepat tentang peratusan masa pendedahan bahasa Inggeris dan bahasa Melayu di sekolah kerana pihak GMP juga membuat aritmetik sejak sejak mula dasar PPSMI ini dipaksakan dahulu dan diulang-ulang beberapa kali oleh pelbagai pihak (walaupun tidak pernah disiarkan dalam akhbar perdana).

Pengkaji kami itu ialah oleh Kamal Shukri (masih bekerja dengan kementerian Pelajaran dan juga sejak beberapa tahun ini memegang jawatan Timbalan Presiden Persatuan Linguistik Malaysia) yang dapat ditelaah dalam buku suntingan Abdul Rahim Bakar dan Awang Sariyan, “Suara Pejuang Bahasa” terbitan Persatuan Linguistik Malaysia 2005.

Peratusan dedahan bahasa Melayu dan bahasa Inggeris yang dipaparkan oleh PAGE itu bolehlah diterima sama dengan kajian Kamal Shukri (dengan memaafkan kesalahan PAGE dalam aritmetiknya di akhbar itu kerana jumlahnya tidak berjumlah 100%; mungkin kerana sebok dengan perjuangan bahasa Inggerisnya!) tetapi itu semua untuk di Sekolah Rendah dan Sekolah Menengah Rendah (Tingkat 1-3) sahaja.

PAGE sengaja menyorok fakta di Sekolah Menengah Atas, Sekolah Matrikulasi dan universiti, yang peratusan dedahan bahasa Melayu menjadi sengkek atau melukut di tepi gantang sahaja.

Umpamanya di Tingkatan 6 Sains dan Matrikulsi dedahan bahasa Melayu hanya 20% sahaja dan di universiti sudah jadi bukan universiti di Malaysia lagi kerana segi subjek sahaja pun hanya sekitar 10% subjek tidak layak dikelaskan sebagai “sains dan matematik”!

Bagaimana lagi PAGE mahu menegakkan benang basahnya dengan mengatakan PPSMI tetap mempertahankan martabat bahasa Melayu!? Maasya Allah!

Bahasa Inggeris boleh!

PAGE masih berangan-angan dan memakai emosinya sahaja apabila menolak pandangan umum sekarang (bukan GMP sahaja) bahawa bahasa Inggeris (di mana pun) tidak boleh dan tidak sesuai dipelajari menerusi subjek sains dan matematik kerana PAGE tidak memaparkan apa-apa hasil kajian di dalam dan luar negara.

Sedangkan kajian di dalam negara kini pun sudah ada dan dahulunya sebelum PPSMI lagi kajian tidak berjayanya pelajar berbahasa ibunda A meningkatkan kepandaiannya dalam bahasa B menerusi PPSMB itu sudah pun ada.

Kajian gagalnya PPSMB dalam pencapaian sains dan matematik pelajar berbahasa ibunda A lagi banyak dan lebih ketara lagi! Kenapa tetap keras pedal!

Tak cukup istilah

PAGE hanya meracau tentang kononnya tidak cukupnya istilah sains dan matematik dalam bahasa Melayu.

Berilah satu istilah sains atau matematik yang tidak ada dalam bahasa Melayu sekarang!

Lagi pun berapa banyaklah istilah sains dan matematik dalam bahsa Inggeris itu yang bukan terjemahan dan pinjaman daripada bahasa lain?

Bilangan one sampai ten semuanya daripada bahasa lain sedangkan istilah “satu” sampai “sepuluh” semua asli Melayu keuali mungkin “satu” dan “dua” sahaja.

Sains dan matematik dalam bahasa Melayu ini sudah berkurun-kurun (sejak abad ke-5M lagi, iaitu zaman kerajaan Melayu Funan dan Campa!); dan kalau nak dikira selepas merdeka ini pun (anggap kita mengalami amnesia) sudah berumur setengah abad.

Tidakkah PAGE tahu tesis bidang sains dan matematik di peringkat Sarjana dan Doktor Falsafah dalam bahasa Melayu sudah berjumlah ribuan sehingga sudah ada istilah perkara dalam sains dan matematik yang asli dalam bahasa Melayu pun!

Tidak hairanlah, istilah ilmu ini dalam bahasa Inggeris juga sentiasa diterjemah daripada bahasa-bahasa lain sejak dahulu, kini dan selamanya kerana yang berkarya bukan dari kalangan orang Anglo-Saxon atau orang seperti ahli PAGE sahaja.

Universiti dan sarjana berbahasa Inggeris sahaja yang hebat

PAGE juga MERACUNI pembaca dengan menegaskan kononnya universiti dalam bahasa Inggeris sahajalah yang hebat-hebat di dunia ini. Di mana letaknya universiti di Perancis, Jerman dan Rusia (kalau pandang rendah pada Jepun dan Korea?).

Adakah semua negara di dunia sekarang mahu mematikan pendidikan sains dan matematik dalam bahasa bukan Inggeris seperti yang dilakukan oleh dasar PPSMI?

Adakah selama kita belajar sains dan matematik dalam bahasa Melayu ini, pelajar kita tidak dapat belajar di universiti-universti yang hebat itu semata-mata kerana rendah mutunya dan tak tahu Inggeris?

PAGE ini sungguh bebal dan menghina bukan sahaja bahasanya sendiri tetapi seluruh bahasa-bahasa bukan Inggeris di dunia ini.

Bukankah setiap tahun (sebelum kita gawat) kita menghantarkan (dan tidak kurang ramainya pergi sendiri sahaja) beribu-ribu pelajar kita (yang belajar dalam bahasa Melayu) ke seberang laut di negara pelbagai dengan jayanya?

Tahukah dan insafkah PAGE terhadap profil pemenang Hadiah Nobel setiap tahun dan Pingat Field setiap 4 tahun itu, dan pemenang dalam pertandingan Olimpiad Antarabangsa bidang sains dan matematik setiap tahun?

Mereka kebanyakannya bukan Anglo-Saxon pun (bangsa yang bahasa ibundanya bahasa Inggeris), atau bukan bangsa dari negara yang ada dasar seperti PPSMI!

Baru tahun 2008 pemenang Hadiah Nobel Fizik digondoli oleh 3 orang ahli fizik berbangsa Jepun dan dua daripadanya mengajar fizik dalam bahasa Jepun (seorang lagi dalam bahasa Inggeris agaknya kerana menetap di AS).

Tak ada buku

PAGE juga masih mendendangkan lagu tahun 1960-an (masa mula-mula bahasa Melayu mahu diangkat menjadi bahasa ilmu sekolah dan universiti) iaitu “lagu tak cukup buku”.

Berkenaan buku ini ada sekurang-kurangnya tiga tahap: buku tahap sekolah, tahap pelajar universiti dan tahap penyelidikan (di universiti dsbnya).

Buku sains dan matematik di peringkat sekolah sudah menjadi satu industri yang besar yang ramai guru terlibat dengannya dan sudah dianggap mencapai tahap yang sama dengan bahasa-bahasa maju di dunia, dalam erti kata kita sendiri sudah boleh berkarya sendiri dengan aslinya.

Malah ada pihak yang boleh dipercayai menyebut bahawa buku-buku sains dan matematik sekolah sekarang ini adalah terjemahan buku-buku Melayu!

Buku teks di peringkat universiti, kedudukan kita tidaklah buruk sangat berbanding dengan buku-buku teks peringkat universiti di negara-negara maju di Eropah sekali pun kerana sarjana kita sudah melakukan terjemahan atau berkarya asli sepanjang masa tetapi tidak banyak yang dapat diterbitkan (dicetak) kerana dasar penerbitan buku pengajian tinggi kita tidak pernah diambil pusing oleh kerajaan sehingga tidak pernah menjadikannya satu daripada komponen “pembangunan negara” yang penting dengan peruntukan berjuta-juta (apatah lagi ratusan juta) ringgit setahun maka perkembangannya tidak sesihat di negara-negara maju itu.

Dengan teknologi maklumat sekarang terjemahan atau karya asli ini disiarkan oleh hamper setiap pensyarah menerusi lamannya masing-masing sehingga penerbitan buku secara tradisi itu pun sudah tidak begitu relevan.

Dalam keadaan sedemikianlah, maka sebelum berlakunya bahang dasar paksaan PPSMI 2003 di universiti, kewujudan buku-buku teks berbahasa Melayu di dalam kursus-kursus sains dan matematik adalah hanya sekitar 16% (bidang sains fizis dan sains matematik 30% tetapi bidang perubatan hanya 6%).

Selebihnya pelajar kita memang menggunakan “buku-buku” dari laman pensyarah (yang sebelum 2003 hampir semuanya dalam bahasa Melayu) dan buku dalam bahasa Inggeris sebagai rujukan tambahannya.

Pengetahuan bahasa Inggeris pelajar universiti kita yang selama ini diajar untuk tujuan ini tidaklah menimbulkan masalah yang besar, walaupun keperluan peningkatannya tetap diakui dan oleh itu usaha penatarannya terus menerus dilakukan menerusi pendidikan subjek bahasa Inggeris di sepanjang pengajian di universiti.

Keadaan ini serupa dengan yang berlaku di seluruh dunia termasuklah di Eropah, iaitu pelajar berbincang ilmu dalam bahasa sendiri tetapi buku teks di hadapannya dalam bahasa keduanya.

Ini terbukti tiada masalahnya walaupun pencapaian ilmu di kalangan pelajar kita memang berbeza dengan pelajar di Eropah kerana masalah budaya ilmu yang tidak mungkin diselesaikan menerusi PPSMI.

Ini tidak sepatutnya menjadi sebab kita lari daripada tugas memperkaya khazanah ilmu dalam bahasa kita sendiri sebagaimana tidak berlakunyajuga di Eropah. Kita harus belajar lagi dengan lebih bersungguh-sungguh akan cara-cara negara di Eropah melakukannya.

Dalam pada itu sarjana kita sudah mampu berkarya sendiri sehingga mampu melahirkan buku-buku teks yang setanding dengan buku-buku teks dalam bahasa Inggeris atau bahasa Negara Maju yang lain, malah sesengahnya ada yang dipakai (buku dalam bahasa Melayu itu, atau diterjemah dahulu) di Eropah.

Di peringkat penyelidikan, masalah bahasa (Inggeris dan bahasa-bahasa lain yang relevan) di kalangan penyelidik dan sarjana kita walaupun dahulunya (kira-kira 50% sarjana itu) belajar sains dan matematik dalam bahasa Melayu sehingga ijazah pertamanya, kerana mereka tidak mungkin menjadi sarjana tanpa pengetahuan yang cukup dalam sekurang-kurannya satu bahasa yang lain yang relevan dengan bidang ilmunya (Sarjana Eropah biasanya tahu tiga bahasa: bahasanya sendri dua lagi bahsa ilmu yang lain seperti Inggeris, Jerman, Perancis, Rusia dll).

Malah sarjana kita yang berlatar belakang pengalaman berilmu menerusi bahasa sendiri itu (belajar dan mengajar), sudah ada menunjukkan tanda-tanda menjadi lebih kreatif atau menuju ke sekreatif sarjana-sarjana luar negara yang berlatar belakang bahasa ibunda masing-masing itu.

Ini sudah menjadi satu teori daya penciptaan yang tidak sesuai diperpanjang-panjangkan di sini, tetapi PAGE patut menyedari akan teori daya penciptaan ini.

Bukankah zalimnya jika budaya ini ingin dihapuskan?

Perkara terakhir tentang kononnya bahasa Melayu ini masih tidak layak menjadi bahasa sains dan matematik ialah betapa PAGE sepatutnya bertindak seperti orang-orang Inggeris dan orang-orang di Negara Maju itu, iaitu berjuang meningkatkan kelayakan bahasanya sendiri ini.

Bukankah begitu yang dilakukan oleh orang Inggeris dalam abad ke-19M dahulu kerana sebelum itu bahasa Inggeris masih belum dijadikan bahasa perantaraan pengajaran dan pembelajaran dan penyelidikan sains dan matematik.

(Inggeris bangsa terakhir di Eropah menggunakan bahasa sendiri dalam sains dan matematik kerana taasubnya kepada bahasa Latin).

Kita perlu terus membina bahasa kita (bersama rumpun kita, Indonesia) dengan tekad yang sama seperti bangsa-bangsa di Eropah itu dan mengisi bahasa kita itu dengan “sains dan matematik”.

Apa pun kekurangan yang masih ada pada bahasa kita, seperti yang dibangkitkan oleh PAGE tentang kurangnya ilmu dalam google berbahasa Melayu itu, dan lain-lain lagi itu, sepatutnyalah menjadi tanggunjawab kita bersama memperbaikinya, bukannya mengenyahkan bahasa kita sendiri.

Semua ini pastinya tercapai dengan memeriahkan lagi bilangan bangsa kita menguasai sains dan matematik dalam bahasa kita sendiri sambil menguasai bahasa ilmu semasa (Inggeris dan sebagainya) menerusi pelajaran bahasa-bahasa berkenaan itu.

Inilah caranya yang sudah terbukti Berjaya seluruh dunia!

Pelajar luar Bandar tak ada masalah?

PAGE juga tidak ikhlas apabila menjawab soalan bagaimana nasib pelajar luar bandar, atau sebenar pelajar dalam bandar juga, iaitu pelajar yang ibu-bapanya tidak menggunakan bahasa Inggeris di rumahnya (bahasa Inggeri bukan bahasa ibundanya).

Beliau hanya memaparkan teori pembelajaran bahasa dengan menyebut teori itu dan teori ini dan professor bahasa itu dan profesor ini.

Itu mungkin betul untuk belajar bahasa! Walaupun ada teori yang betentanga dengan ini, itu tak dipolemikkan di sini.

Yang menjadi isunya, “Bahasa apa yang terbaik untuk pelajar belajar sains dan matematik?”. Profesor sains atau matematik pendidikan mana yang berteori pelajar berbahass ibunda A lebih baik belajar sains dan matematik dalam bahasa B?

PAGE membicarakan rancangan kerajaan dalam peningkatan kefasihan guru sains dan matematik dengan pelbagai strategi yang sedang kerajaan ambil dengan belanja/peruntukan RM5.2 bilion dan kononnya kejayan progam di Negeri Sembilan dengan penuh kesombongan bunyinya.

Bagi mereka yang waras dan mengambil iktibar daripada Negara-Negara Maju dan perakuan PBB, bukannya mereka yang tidak terpasung jiwanya lalu tidak percaya hanya kebudayaan Inggeris sahaja yang layak memajukan sesuatu bangsa, tentunya akan mengiling-ngiling kepalanya dan cukup jengkel rasanya dengan peruntukan itu kerana peruntukan semega itu jika digunakan untuk peningkatan kemahiran guru sains dan matematik mengajar sains dan matematik dalam bahasa ibunda dan peningkatan kemahiran guru subjek bahasa Inggeris, pastinya negara mendapat lonjakan baru dalam kemajuan sains matematik anak bangsanya.

Peruntukan untuk menjayakan PPSMI adalah peruntukan untuk bergaya sahaja! PAGE juga nampaknya “mengugut” supaya dasar PPSMI tidak dihapuskan semata-mata kerana sudah dibelanjakan sebanayak bilion-bilion RM itu.

Mereka yang dihantar ke seberang laut atau yang dilatih di dalam negara dalam bahasa Inggeris itu, masih boleh dipakai, dengan hanya sedikit orientasi ke arah bahasanya sendiri, tanpa belanja yang mega-mega lagi, apabila dasar PPSMI ini dimansuhkan.

Yang penting ikutlah pepatah Melayu, “Sesat di jalan, balik ke pangkal jalan”, janganlah bertindak “malu alah” yang nampak sedang condong kea rah itu sekarang.

Merosotnya keputusan peperiksaan di bawah PPSMI

PAGE nampaknya mengaku kemerosotan prestasi PPSMI tetapi kumpulan citawan kebudayaan Inggeris ini menegaskan masa 6 tahun tidak mencukupi untuk menilainya.

Sebenarnya, jika kajian-kajian di seberang laut dari univerisiti berbahasa Inggeris sekali pun (kerana itu sepatutnya lebih meyakinkan PAGE agaknya) dan setelah kita sendiri membuktikankany buat selama 6 tahun ini, maka keinsafanlah yang sepatutnya berlaku.

Bukannya mahu mencuba 8 tahun lagi, kerana katanya sampai 2016 baru boleh tahu siapa bijak?! Apa kaedah kajian sebegini?

Tak mahu mencontohi Jepun dan Korea

Hujah PAGE tentang sebab kita tidak mahu mencontohi Jepun dan Korea aneh, cukup haru-biru dan tidak rasional. Katanya kerana kita ketinggalan 40 tahun segi “revolusi industri” berbanding dengan Jepun dan Korea dan oleh itu kita ketinggalan selama itulah segi bahasa. Kemudian diberinya contoh tiadanya penggunaan bahasa Melayu di Proton sebagai bukti bahasa Melayu bukan bahasa industri.

Seterusnya PAGE berhujah, Jepun menggunakan bahasanya kerana dia bangsa pembuat atau “negara pembuat” dan kita tak terdaya kerana kita “negara pengguna”.

Ada makna apakah bercakap begini? Apa rasionalnya hujah bercelaru dan songsang begini?

Bukankah bahasa Melayu tak dipakai di Proton (dan banyak lagi di swasta kita) sebab pegawai-pegawai besar di Proton (atau di swasta itu) sengaja tak mahu pakai bahasa Melayu?

Banyak “negara pengguna” di dunia ini yang tidak menginjak bahasanya seperti bangsa kita! Yang sepatutnya, sejarah Jepun dan Korea itu yang perlu dipelajari bagaimana dia boleh jadi sekarang!

Dasar pendidikan sains dan matematik bagaimana yang mereka buat ? Bagaimana dia layan bahasa dia sendiri sebelum dia maju dahulu lagi?

Bukannya berhujah terbalik kuang, “Dia maju sebab itu dia boleh guna bahasa sendiri”, “kita mundur, jadi kita tak guna bahasa sendiri”. Siapalah yang tidak merasa amat jengkel dengan hujah dangkal dan pelek PAGE ini.

Kemudian PAGE cuba mengada-adakan sebab Dong Jiao Zong menentang PPSMI kerana kononnya persatuan itu mahu menompang dan mempertahan bahasa Mandarin yang telah maju, atau lebih maju daripada bahasa Melayu.

Pemimpin Dong Jiao Zhong tidak pernah berhujah begitu. Pemimpin Cina di Malaysia (apatah lagi di Tiongkok) jauh lebih waras daripada pemimpin Melayu kerana mereka mahu anak-anaknya lebih celik kebudayaannya sehingga pada satu tahap yang dikira cukup sebelum menguasai ilmu dalam bahasa-bahasa lain.

PAGE perlu sedar juga bahasa Mandarin pun masih belum mencapai bahasa sains dan matematik sekuat bahasa Inggeris tetapi Cina di Malaysia, apatah lagi di negara Tiongkok itu, tidak akan meninggalkan bahasanya mengikut tingkah PAGE itu.

Tiongkok akan terus membangunkan bahasanya, bahasa Mandarin, sehingga benar-benar dapat bersaing dengan bahasa-bahasa sains dan matematik lain itu. PAGE juga perlu sedar bahawa bahasa Melayu dalam abad ke-5M hingga ke-12M sudah menjadi bahasa ilmu antarabangsa (ketika Eropah agak Gelap) kerana ribuan buku dalam bahasa Melayu di bawa ke negeri Tiongkok (contohnya, bacalah kesah I-Ching pada Zaman Kerajaan Sriwijaya abad ke-7M) dan sebahagiannya diterjemah kpd bahasa Tionghua, sebahagiannya oleh sarjana Melayu sendiri yang diundang oleh raja-raja Tiongkok itu!

Bahasa Melayu pada zaman Islamnya (abad ke-13 hinga abad ke-19) iaitu sebelum penjajah menjadi sebahagian daripada tuan kita hingga sekarang, pun amat antarabangsa sifatnya sehingga dikagumi oleh para sarjana di Eropah zaman itu.

Bahasa dan bangsa Melayu ini menjadi hamba sejak abad ke-19M ini sahaja, bersekali dengan kejatuhan Tamadun Islam di Eropah, Tamadun Empayar ‘Uthmaniyaht itu. Kita hanya ingin membangun semula tamadun bangsa yang besar ini.

Jadi hanya kejahilan PAGE terhadap sejarah kebudayaannya sendiri sahaja yang menyebabkan sanggup mereka seolah-olah mengatakan “bahasa Melayu ini bahasa bangsat” sahaja dan oleh itu tak payahlah digunakan untuk belajar apa-apa ilmu dengannya.

Imbauan GMP

Kita telah bercambah, tumbuh merata dan bercabang selama 30 tahun ini, dan menunggu gemburan dan baja buat beberapa ketika sahaja lagi untuk berbuah.

Jurnal sains dan matematik dwibahasa (bahasa Melayu dan Inggeris ) telah pun diiktiraf di dunia sama seperti jurnal dari beberapa buah Negara Membangun seperti Rusia, Tiongkok dan Ceska.

Malang sekali jika kita terus membiarkan diri kita berpemimpinkan orang yang tidak tahu kedudukan bangsanya sendiri dan malah terus menebas, dan menebang pokok yang sedang subur bercabang.

Kalau tidak dipupuk, dijirus dan digembur semula mulai sekarang maka pastinya pokok itu akan mati segera.

Anonymous,  10 March 2009 at 00:47  

Mansur Putih's take on English for M & S


By Mansor Puteh.

For all my life I only studied in English-medium schools from standard one at a Catholic missionary school, in Melaka at that, all the way to university in America. Although the administrators would not dare to admit that they were that? It was true.

I remember being the only Malay student in some of the primary classes, and for catecism (is this how they spell it?) I was the only student to be asked to leave the class, take my chair and sit out in the corridor by the door.

I could hear what they were saying or learning, and could recite some of the prayers the Catholics do.

And for ‘ugama’ classes, we were put together with the other Muslim students from the convent, since we were too few to form a class for ourselves.

Yes, some of the students started to use English names when they were older and aware how their own names did not sound good or right. Many became Catholics.

But despite that two of the Chinese and Indian classmates of mine, would later convert to Islam with one marrying another Chinese woman and the Indian man marrying a Malay woman, who turns out to be more religious than I do.

I find the politicizing of Bahasa Melayu and Bahasa Inggeris is typical of some Malaysians. They think too highly of the English language as their savior and passport to a better life.

But alas, the type of English that most Malaysians have or are able to speak in, are passable; their vocabulary is limited.

They can only speak in the language amongst themselves in local forums but not elsewhere. The reason being they do not possess the special skills to attract the attention of those abroad.

Once they go abroad, especially to England or America, and even Australia, New Zealand or the other English-speaking countries, they would not dare open their mouths.

Those who do theater in English all the time, dare not go to these countries; they remain where they are to perform at the same small stages in the city.

Yet, many say, if one is conversant and adept in English, one can go very far.

Go and check the Aborigines of Australia; the Maoris of New Zealand, and even the Blacks in America, and one can see that they are still where they are and not about to be a sensation in America.

Even the Canadians just can’t cross over to America and attract attention in whatever they do. Only a few of them actually get the opportunity to act in Hollywood films.

Ironically, the non-English or non-Whites who have made it there, are mostly from Hong Kong and China. And surprisingly, if not shockingly, they did not speak much English and had to learn until they are now able to speak just a bit of it but not too much to be able to argue with anyone.

Malaysians, who think too highly of English are deluding themselves; they are daydreaming about the wonderful things that they think they can do with the language and how they think they can become scientists and engineers and other technicians by studying Science and Mathematics in the language at an early age.

Ironic, it may seem, but most of the scientists and engineers in Malaysia are the Malays who do not have any real passion for English. But this did not stop them from pursuing their education abroad and passing.

There are more Iranian students at MIT (this institute is so well-known that it can be described by their initials) are those who studied Science and Mathematics in Farsi. Yet, they could come to MIT and learn English and excel in their education, well enough to allow Iran to now possess nuclear capability.

Malaysians, on the other hand, are stuck where they are. Even the Singaporeans are now reverting to Mandarin. Many of them have no choice but to do so.

Just take a good look at the films and television dramas they produce some of which are also shown in the country, and they are doing it in Mandarin with a smattering of the other Chinese dialects.

Their English language television series is basically a sitcom where they use English in a funny way, because they could not sound too English, or else they could be charged for not having their own identity. So that is why you have Pua Chu Kang.

Can Malaysians who speak in English well have mobility and go anywhere they like and find employment? I doubt it. They are lucky if they can find any job in Malaysia.

And the only reason why there is now a stress on English is because those who are bent on getting it used more are those who wanted to sabotage the development of Bahasa Melayu as the lingua franca of the country as well as the region which comprise of 300 million Malay-speaking people.

It is also to deny many Malay university graduates employment in their companies, because soon all of them would have staff who are Malays.

So by saying that English is a preferred language of commerce, they can in one swipe get rid of the 60,000 Malay university graduates and force them to be unemployed.

It is nothing buy a ploy, that must be exposed.

Whereas, Bahasa Melayu was meant to be the common language of commerce in Malaysia so by the year 2020, most companies in the country communicate in the language.

But this was denied.

The use of English for Science and Mathematic is said to be very convenient; it will allow the students access to all the books that are published elsewhere. But those people have neglected that it is our responsibility to produce those books ourselves, or we will forever become a pariah country, using knowledge that is discarded by the other countries.

No wonder, everything that we do are not original; they are all copied from somewhere.

The study of Science and Mathematics is just the first step to reject the use and development of Bahasa Melayu.

If it is more interesting and convenient to use the language for these two subjects, then in time, they will start to demand English be used for the teaching of History, Geography and the other subjects.

Not satisfied with it, they will also demand the use of English in the courts. No non-Malay lawyer in the Bar Council will not support this proposal if it is made.

After the courts, then it is the parliament. Then it is the Palace. Yes, some will also say that in the English Court they use English and it sounds better.

In the end, Bahasa Malaysia will be pushed back further into the woods together with the Malays who speak in it.

Dhahran Sea,  10 March 2009 at 03:13  

Salam Tok Sak,
Interesting issue that is worth anayzing. Here in Saudi they are facing similar issue, albeit at the higher institution level. King Fahd University of Petroleum & Minerals is probably the only university in the kingdom that is using English as the teaching medium (it inherited this when the university was first established to supply engineers, etc. to Saudi Aramco next door, and when >50% of the lecturers were Americans). However, in the past several years they have had problems when students could not master English well enough to be able to follow their academic works, which are mostly based on English - right from engineering & science textbooks to assignments and lectures. This has had negative impacts on hiring and employees retaining programs among many MNCs with operations in Saudi which put mastering English as a premium. It also affects the government's "Saudization" program, a sort of affirmative action program (similar to NEP) that gives priority to Saudis in certain job categories. I believe the issue boils down to the best way to acquire knowledge (science & technology mostly, less so on usuluddin, etc.) so that students who grow up to become professionals, can get there in the most efficient manner so they could quickly contribute to nation building. What is the best way to achieve this depends very much on each country's education system, and this in turn depends on which language the relevant body of knowledge could be accessed for practical applications. Surely the 250 million or so Arabs (Saudis, Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, etc.) with their well established and long history of Arabic language could have become an advanced group of people now (technologically and scientifically, that is), IF LANGUAGE (read: mother tongue) IS A DETERMINANT FACTOR for "success" in science & technology? But this is NOT the case. I would argue that this is so because, among other things (and there are lots of "other" things, obviously), THE BODY OF KNOWLEDGE REQUIRED for the advancement in science and technology in the 21st century, IS NOT IN ARABIC (maybe so during the Islamic Golden Age few hundred years ago), but in English, German, Japanese, French, Swedish, Russian, etc. It so happens most of this body of knowledge is in English and not unfortunately in Bahasa Melayu or Bahasa Indonesia, or Vietnamese or Thai or Tagalog, Hindi, etc. If we insist to have Bahasa Melayu as the language for Maths and Science, then we have double challenges: to develop an advanced level body of knowledge in Maths & Science in Bahasa Melayu and to translate the existing body of knowledge in English, Japanese, German, French, Russian, Swedish, etc. into Bahasa Melayu. The other option is of course, to master English (or Japanese or German or French, etc.) so we could make use of the existing body of knowledge in science & technology in these languages to move forward. Which is a more practical way? Tepuk dada tanya selera... surely we don't have to be emotional/political about this?

Anonymous,  10 March 2009 at 07:42  

Mansur Puteh above is missing the point. PPMSI is not about learning English. It's about learning maths & science thru English.

It's about missing the whole body of knowledge in the English language that Daharan Sea is talking about above. That's a good example of what is being missed by the Arabs in Saudi Arabia.

The Arabs were at one time leading the world in science & technology -well ahead of the Greeks and others during their golden age until the Mongols invaded & ransacked Baghdad in the 13th century. After that the West took over. Industrial Revolution, Newton, Einstein, scientific discoveries of all sorts, flight to the moon, satellites, nuclear bombs, precision and guided bombs. Tremendous overall progress.

Don't we want to have tremendous progress? Don't we want to have a strong economy? Why are we so sombong with our Malay language?
Proud yes, but not sombong.

The Japanese and the Koreans can afford to have translations done because they have a different history, homogeneous society, different problems and are well ahead scientifically and technologically. Still, Japanese and Korean scientists mostly speak English. The North Koreans perhaps don't speak much English but did they produce nuclear bombs of the indigenous kind? No, Pakistan kind, western kind and those involved must must have known sufficient English. We don't want to follow their path because we don't want a dictatorial "dear leader, Kim" in our midst.

Let's continue PPMSI. The problems for rural kids etc can be addressed and have already been discussed. The Professors of GMP can concentrate on producing theses and books in Malay which can also be used by the country.

Indeed, Professors in the West often write books or at least contribute articles on their areas of expertise towards publications
for the public good. They are really the learned, intellectual and professorial kind. I don't know and wonder about the 66 GMP professors. Especially those taking part in the demonstration.

Ryzal,  10 March 2009 at 09:39  

hanya mencelah...Sdr. mansor Puteh berkata :SINGAPOREANS HAVE REVERTED TO MANDARIN. LOOK AT THEIR FILMS AND TELEVISION DRAMAS.INi berlaku sebabnya mereka sudah menguasai bahasa Inggeris. Bolehlah. Kita pun akan bersifat sama. Begitu juga dnegan alasan skeptikal bahawa jepun menggunakan bahasa jepun , yea itu betul selepas mereka menhgantar banyak cerdik pandai mereka belajar teknologi dgn menggunakan bhsa inggeris pada zman Meiji lagi. Jadinya, berlapang dadalah dulu buat seketika...renung dalam-dalam....insyallah kita akan yakin bahawa ANAK-ANAK MELAYU TIDAK LEMAH DAN KURANG UPAYA sebagaimana tanggapan orang Melayu sendiri.

Anonymous,  10 March 2009 at 11:00  

Hi Dato,

I am a product of teaching of science and maths in BM (back in the 80s). My English turned out ok. Good enough to land a management job in a MNC. Btw my boss is an Aussie, he would not hire me if my English is rubbish.

So, whats my "secret"?

1. I had good and motivated English language teachers at the Sekolah Kebangsaan. This was in the 80s mind you, when this country still had many good teachers.

2. Parental motivation. My parents were simple kampung folks. What they did was, they instilled in me the love of reading. Every chance they got, they would get me a book. Even with their small income. Books for birthdays, books for good exam results. Mostly English books.

My point is that we dont need to teach Maths and Science in English to have sound command of the language. What we need are good English teachers and good reading habits, both which are lacking in current Malaysian society.

Apocryphalist 10 March 2009 at 12:13  

Adakah anda semua fikir isu PPSMI ini adalah isu martabatkan bahasa, isu politik, isu maruah melayu? Saya fikir tidak. Bagi saya, Kementerian Pelajaran sekarang berhadapan dengan DUA isu di bawah ini, yaitu samada:-

a. Mansuhkan PPSMI dan selamatkan pelajar-pelajar kampung dari tidak faham langsung dan dari ketidak-fahaman ini terbawa-bawa sampai ke pengajian tinggi, atau

b. Selamatkan PPSMI dan sisihkan pelajar-pelajar kampung (dan juga bandar) dari penerimaan masyarakat global di masa hadapan dan kemungkinan tidak diterima dalam dunia multi-nasional.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, kan?

Merujuk kepada dua permasalahan yang disebutkan di atas, sila perhatikan:-

1. Hujjah-hujjah lain, seperti hendak memperkasakan bahasalah, hendak memartabatkan bangsalah…. semuanya adalah hujjah-hujjah politik dan hujjah pancing-undi, oleh itu ianya menjadi “moot” dan tidak relevan kepada isu sebenar, kerana kepada setiap hujjah pro begitu terdapat hujjah-hujjah con-nya. Contoh, bagi setiap mereka yang mengatakan “orang-orang Jepun, Jerman, Perancis juga boleh cemerlang dalam penggunaan bahasa ibunda mereka sendiri” boleh juga diberitahu bahawa Jepun, Jerman dan Perancis juga tidak diterima sejagat: tidak ada filem jerman ditayangkan di negara kita. Buku-buku perancis tidak dibaca dengan menyeluruh dan penggunaan bahasa Jepun dalam senario global hanyalah satu novelti atau diplomasi, bukannya untuk sesuatu yang serious globally. Jadi point ini adalah moot dan tidak boleh digunakan oleh kerajaan untuk apa-apa keputusan yang dibuat.

2. Bagi setiap contoh yang memperkukuh hujjah, terdapat contoh yang melemahkan hujjah tersebut. Umpamanya, pihak GMP pernah menanyakan: negara Filipina yang meneraskan pembelajaran Sains dan Matematik dalam bahasa Inggeris itu, di mana nampak kemajuannya. Di mana saintis-saintis agung mereka. Selain dari ekspot pembantu rumah yang fasih berbahasa Inggeris, mana dia keunggulan teknologi natijah dari penggunaan bahasa Inggeris itu sendiri. Kepada cendekiawan yang mempelopori idea ini boleh ditanyakan juga: Indonesia yang menggunakan bahasa ibunda sebagai pengantara Sains dan Matematiknya, di mana ekspot saintis dan ahli matematik mereka?

3. Bagi setiap contoh terperinci yang diambil untuk memperkukuh, terdapat contoh terperinci lain yang memperlemah. Contoh: GMP menghujjahkan 3 saintis Jepun memenangi nobel prize 2008 sedangkan mereka mengeluarkan teori mereka dalam bahasa ibunda sendiri. Ini adalah palsu. Hampir kesemua kertas-kertas penting Yoichiro Nambu, walaupun lahir di Jepun, bermula dari tahun 1961 (setelah hampir 10 tahun menjadi warganegara Amerika) dan diterbitkan di dalam jurnal Physical Review atau Physical Review Letters, kesemuanya dalam bahasa Inggeris. Tidak terdapat kedua-kedua jurnal ini dalam bahasa Jepun. Kobayashi dan Maskawa, pemenang setengah dari hadiah 2008 ini, memang mengajar dalam bahasa Jepun tetapi usaha-usaha mereka (yang paling pentingnya Matrix Kobayashi-Maskawa, sebuah entiti Matematik yang tidak perlu diprosa-kan dalam Inggeris atau Jepun untuk menggunakannya) diterjemahkan ke dalam bahasa Inggeris sebelum boleh dikenali dunia. Tetapi walaupun mereka ini diambil sebagai iktibar, agaknya wujud berpuluh malah beratus lagi “sampel” yang menunjukkan betapa ruginya jika saintis-saintis lain yang membuat kerja-kerja dalam usaha ibunda tidak di kongsi secara universal melalui satu bahasa.

4. Bagi setiap “sampel” yang ditarik untuk mengukuhkan hujjah pro, akan ada sampel yg lain yang akan mengukuhkan contra. Contohnya, bagi setiap ibu-bapa yang mencanangkan kecemerlangan anak-anak mereka dalam PPSMI terdapat mungkin ribuan ibu-bapa lain yang mana anak-anak mereka menjadi mangsa PPSMI dan tidak faham apa-apa dalam kelas. Pandangan-pandangan yang lebih menjadi “self-glorification” ibu-bapa mengenai anak-anak mereka yang berjaya tidak boleh dijadikan sampling untuk dibuat keputusan oleh Kementerian.

5. Pihak GMP juga ada menyebut tentang beribu tesis Masters dan 400 tesis PhD yang ditulis dalam negeri ini menggunakan bahasa melayu. Mungkin boleh diberitahu kepada kita bahawa di antara 400 ini, berapa banyak kah yang telah dijadikan rujukan oleh penyelidik lain di seluruh dunia? Ada setengah? How about 100. Atau 50? 10 tesis ada? Sila beri statistik. Dan yang lebih mustahaknya: berapa banyak antara tesis-tesis tersebut TIDAK menyebut atau menggunakan karya dari sumber lain terutamanya Bahasa Inggeris sebagai asas penyelidikkan mereka?

6. Pejuang bahasa juga gemar menyebut intelek yang ini cendekiawan yang itu dalam menyokong perjuangan mereka. Ini juga adalah moot dan tidak boleh dipakai kerana terdapat juga intelek dan cendekiawan yang ramai yang TIDAK memihak kepada mereka. Walaubagaimanapun untuk apa seorang PENYAIR digunakan untuk mengepalai satu demonstrasi untuk memperjuangkan pemansuhan Inggeris dalam SAINS dan MATEMATIK juga perlu diambil kira.

Jadi sekarang isunya hanya kedua-dua tadi. Mahu selamatkan yang tak mampu dan babitkan dan perturunkan piawaian murid yang lain sekali, atau mahu pertingkatkan pembabitan dalam Matematik dan Sains global dan mengorbankan budak-budak kampung? Itu saja.

Adakah saya mempunyai jawapan kepada kedua-dua masalah ini? Jawabnya tidak. Kalau ditarik kain kafannya menutup kaki, kepala akan terjulur keluar. Untuk ditutup kepala, kaki akan terjulur. Itu lah maslahah yang dihadapi kementerian sekarang agaknya. Begitu juga semua “armchair philosopher” yang memberikan pelbagai pandangan pro dan kontra dalam blog ini tak usahlah berfikir bahawa pandangan-pandangan mereka adalah penoktah hujjah, justru harus diterima pakai oleh semua.

Ok sorry people. Broadcast is now switched to English.

Having said all these, what am I. A deep-down dirty proponent of PPSMI? A Pejuang Bahasa worthy of my skin and crusader for Bahasa? Neither. Or both, perhaps. I will explain.
From my writings here (halfway down, 7:32 AM), I do admit that I have this cute affinity for advancing the nation’s future generations in their acceptance of global participation in all disciplines including Science and Mathematics, through the usage of a Language agreed by all to be an international one.

But in working towards achieving this I agree the pathway is very difficult. I also agree with the teachers and field workers who have to meet real-life situations everyday. I myself got a jolt of reality the other day when my daughter came back from school and brought a friend who, she said, knew nothing about Additional Mathematics despite having been in class for about 3 months already. I then proceeded to teach this form-4 girl. It was about Functions and Quadratic Equations.

And here’s what I found out. There is no problem about Mathematical Terminologies whether they are in English or not. She knows what a function is, what a rhombus, a cubic equation, a parallelogram is etc etc. However, it is during the verbal conveyance that she really has a problem. When I started teaching her in malay, even though using English mathematical symbols and terminologies, she could grasp it. I know, it is hard to believe and difficult to explain, but even saying things like “Kenapa tak buka bracket ni … cuba darabkan atas dan bawah dengan nombor yang sama … mana tanda negative awak? … kenapa x ini power 3 dan bukan power 2 … cuba bahagikan denominator ni dengan 2 juga ….” Within less than 5 minutes she had already mastered a part of functional analysis and when she could do succesfully all the problems in that page, I thought she was lying when she said she didn’t understand Maths in class. “Habis kalau tak faham macam mana awak boleh buat ni?” I asked. “Abis uncle baru ajar tadi… fahamlah!” she answered.

To be fair, and using my arguments above, perhaps this small sampling shall not be used to denote a totality of situations but it suffices to show that what politicians, pejuang bahasa, rabble rousers or English die-harders understand in their ivory-laden chair might be of a totally different view from what is experienced right in the field heartlands of Reality. And still, both viewpoints have their merits and worthy of considerations.

It’s like this: if you are a terrible archer and you keep missing the bull’s eye from 100 meters away, what do you do. Work hard to improve your aim, or simply to just replace the tiny bull’s eye to that of a bigger one? The PPSMI proponents seem to insist on the former, while ignoring the absence of the infrastructure needed to achieve this while the GMP bulldozes and says: “Nothing doing! Just revert back to a bigger bull’s eye so that EVERYBODY can hit the target!”

Is one viewpoint more despicable than the other, one nobler than the next? That is for everyone to answer, including the Ministry. They have to weigh in very heavily from all considerations before making a judgement beneficial to all of us, especially our young who have to face the future when all of us are gone later …


Eyes Wide Open 10 March 2009 at 12:53  

What is the language proficiency of our country's majority?

I would hazard a guess that at least 70% of the country is proficient in Malay and another 20% has a passable command of the language (ballpark figure).

Of those children, when they enter the national school system, they are immersed in the Malay language - so they will be proficient in the language within a few years.

Teaching Maths and Science in English within such an environment is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

What the rationale is to not teach those subjects in a language where everyone is proficient in is completely beyond me!

English as the techno lingua franca of the world? PAH!!

Has anyone spoken to the engineers from Sony? Toyota? BMW?

How many of them are proficient in English? Maybe 10-20%? What about the rest of the engineers - quota fillers?

The quality of our nation's human resource is NOT dependent on the language, but the quality of the teachers and education systems!

Improve our education system and we'll stand tall in the world no matter what language we speak!

Wenger J Khairy 10 March 2009 at 15:50  

It sounds so ridicolous, so far fetched, that it seems that this is exactly what is going to happen. Wonder what new projects you can bump in when you raise a measly RM 7 b to RM 50 billion.

Wow, bizzare.

Anonymous,  11 March 2009 at 07:32  

I was anonymous 09 March 2009 09:41 on your article "The teaching of Science and Maths

I felt really silly after posting a response about wrong prorities and about a shadow economy lining the pockets of abusers of trust. Because after my comments there were some really intellectual and excellent discourse on the subjects, a credit to your blog as it does attract really high quality discussion. But your latest posting opens up raw wounds. Here's the thing; it is exactly what is happening under our noses for years whenever the govt comes up with an initiative. Who cares about the children's future? It's all about getting rich at the expense of future generations.

ben,  11 March 2009 at 11:18  

The opponents of PPSMI opined that rural students can't cope and are disadvantaged. I say bollocks ! Read below the results of STPM today.

Rural students outshine urbanites
By Veena Babulal


KUALA LUMPUR: For the first time ever, science students in rural areas outdid their urban counterparts in the Sijil Tinggi Persekolahan Malaysia (STPM) examination. And 92.7 per cent of STPM candidates were confident to answer mathematics, computing and science papers in English.

Although performance continued to tilt in favour of urban students, rural high-scorers in the science stream outdid the urban students.

In announcing the results yesterday, Malaysian Examinations Council chairman Professor Tan Seri Dzulkifli Abdul Razak said:

"A total of 14.80 per cent of rural students from the Science stream achieved three to five As this year, compared with 13 per cent of the urban candidates.

"This is not only surprising, it is extraordinary because as far as I can recall, this has never happened before."

The overall number of urban candidates who scored between three to five As made up 10.39 per cent while only 6.77 per cent of rural candidates obtained results within the same grade bracket.

He said although the number of students who scored straights As had dropped two years in a row, the overall performance actually improved.

A total of 50,159 candidates sat for the examination last year.

Only 13 candidates who sat for five subjects scored all As last year, compared with 25 students in 2007.

Of this number, 10 candidates were from science and the rest from arts stream.

A total of 223 students who sat for four subjects scored straight As last year, compared with 267 in 2007.

"The overall performance for last year, however, improved by 0.65 per cent with 46,277 candidates or 92.26 per cent of the total number of students passing with at least one principal, compared with 56,963 (or 91.61 per cent) meeting this requirement in 2007," Dzulkifli said.

The number of students who achieved a Cumulative Grade Point Average (CGPA) of 4.0 also dropped from 760 in 2007 to 440 last year.

Last year, 3,437 students who sat for five subjects obtained full principals compared with 3,689 the year before.

A total of 18,686 students, or 37.25 per cent who took four subjects obtained full principals compared with 23,112, (37.17 per cent) for 2007.

Generally students performed better in Usuluddin, Geography, Sports Science, Further Mathematics T, Computing, Visual Science, Economy and Business Studies.

Eyes Open Wider,  11 March 2009 at 12:12  

This is to Eyes Wide Open.

Sir, I have noticed your ramblings here, there and elsewhere, and for quite some time now. Whilst Sakmongkol here has been duped into thinking that you are a person of material, thereby mistakenly linking you, blogsites to which you insert your senile ramblings elsewhere, notably Deminegara and the likes, (sometimes using nicknames other than Eyes Wide Open but with the same lack of reasoning clearly oozing through) have ignored your substance-less takes. It appears that you like to write. You like to comment even though on things that you comprehend little about and you also like to, at times, challenge people and invite them to duels , often luring them to your tak-laku blogsite. I know that you have an agenda behind you. Or whoever it was that urged (or sponsored) you to write. But could not those sponsors find some people with intellectual finesse instead?

Irrespective of what topics or issue brought in, you are there, even though it is very glaring that not only do you not have any mastery over the subject that you write and want to comment about, but you even lack basic understanding of the issue. To the uninitiated you seem to be perhaps a bit above mediocre, with good sentence building draped with cynicism. But upon closer inspection almost all are just Much Ado about Nothing.

In this recent issue about PPSMI, for example. While people commenting here are giving their factual Numbers or Research Statistics, you also like to impress with some, but the best you could come up with are just mumblings about some hazy, fuzzy statements about 70%-30% of something unsure, which, no doubt, came from the pool of your mediocre learnings.

I tell you what, Eyes Wide Open. Why don’t you sharpen your pencils, fold your sleeves up and start writing long-winded defenses of yourself or condemning me. This is what you do best, I think. Go ahead. I can take it. What it perhaps will result in, is sparing readers here from having to read your boring and gist-less mind-projections.

This is to Ben.

Kudos, Ben for highlighting us with some facts about STPM. Now what the hell do those people demo-ing on the streets about, presenting with some facts of their own?

This is to myself.

Is Ben the EWO that EWO’s mother never had but wished she had? Factual Reasonings versus Mindless Ramblings: sooooo very hip!

Eyes Wide Open 11 March 2009 at 13:19  

Eyes Open Wider

Thank you for the attention you pay to me. I'm surprised that you find me Much Ado About Nothing yet make much ado about me - dedicating 86% of your post to me, and only 8% space to ben (whom you hold out to be the doyen of factual posting)!

And the icing on the cake surely must be that you spent 6% of your post, dedicated to stroking your own twisted ego with your ramblings questioning other people's lineage!

Trading personal insults in another person's space? How low class! This is a space open by Dato for discussions, discuss la...No bloody manners la you!

As to your assertions that I know not of what I speak and of, multiple personality syndrome, and corporate sponsorship - well...

1st -
you accuse me of random ramblings without facts and figures to back me up. Can you back up your above assertions about me? Otherwise don't be a bloody hypocrite!

2nd -
I am in the education business. I am on the frontlines, facing students every day. My programme teaches Maths in English. So I guess I do have some qualification to write on this matter. What about you?

3rd -
You blatantly insult Sakmongkol! You ridicule me as uninformed and insignificant, and then you go on to imply that Dato is even more so for being duped by me!

Hey, I sincerely doubt that I am as informed as the good Dato. If anyone was to influence anyone else, it would be Sak over EWO!

4th -
As far as I know, only BN pays their bloggers to attack other bloggers. Since I'm no big fan of BN-of-today, it's highly unlikely I'm getting paid! Also, you attack me of having no substance in my "senile ramblings". Let's see you put some substance into this assertion of yours! Prove it - don't just bluster hot air! Let's not be bloody hypocrites, huh?

5th -
I fail to see how your entire post contributes to the topic of discussion la? Enlighten me?

koro koro,  11 March 2009 at 19:30  

The last time I had a look at my kid's exam papers (PMR) i noticed that for science and Maths they have BOTH malay and English versions of the questions.

I wonder what is the percentage of students answering in english and BM?

also, it begs the question, if both subjects are tought in english, why then the questions in the exams appear in both BM and malay?

are these kids really studying in english? from what little i know students in kampongs hardly study in english, even the teachers can't speak english.

and the bigger question is this. what is the issue, is it the science and maths or the mastery of the english language?

if the mastery of the english language is the issue, then we're barking at the wrong tree.
there are certainly better ways how to address this matter.

Eyes Open Wider,  11 March 2009 at 21:39  

“I'm surprised that you find me Much Ado About Nothing yet make much ado about me – dedicating make much ado about me - dedicating 86% of your post to me,”

Damn the crows! Was it 86%? I was so sure I counted correctly and I thought it was something like 94, a tad less than 100. That’s ok, I’ll try better next time.

1st -
“you accuse me of random ramblings without facts and figures to back me up. Can you back up your above assertions about me?”
Yes I can, with self-assertions: How about your entire posting now, your entire postings of before, and the whole persona that is you?

2nd -
“I am in the education business. I am on the frontlines, facing students every day. My programme teaches Maths in English."
This, my dear, explains it all then. And to think the government and the detractors groping blindly for reasons for poor performances in our kids. Sigh …

3rd -
“You blatantly insult Sakmongkol! You ridicule me as uninformed and insignificant, and then you go on to imply that Dato is even more so for being duped by me!”
Mmmm using a little tactic there don’t we now. Trying to pull in other people as a shield, shielding a shield-less persona? Mmmm actually you got it wrong, Mr Eyes Wide Open. I was insulting YOU.

4th – [Too pointless and partisaning to answer]

5th -
“I fail to see how your entire post contributes to the topic of discussion la? Enlighten me?”
Lots, Mr Eyes Wide Open. The mere fact that you have taken time off from your usual philosophies-without-phacts monologues (that you enforce upon people laa) and concentrate on ONE writing that ruffle your feathers show much about the stuff you are made of, but then it had greatly relieved other readers. Amateurs differ from people of substance in that they are easily side-tracked from real issues and easily caught up in minor polemics, their real bread and butter. Of course when they pretend to grow up and try to put on shoes that are too big for them, the result can be very predictable, as can be seen here.

Can you permit me to teach you a thing or two about the wily ways of wil-e-coyote, Mr Eyes Wide Open? You should have ignored me. Yes, do not answer at all, and continue with your ramblings. At least that way your … err… incapacity and deficiency for engaging in sensible arguments do not get exposed.

Yes. Start NOW, if you value whatever little integrity you have left in you.

ben,  11 March 2009 at 23:11  

YBhg Dato’ Alimuddin Dom, Director of Education

YBhg Dato’,

With reference to the above matter, I would like to present to you my view on why it's necessary to continue teaching of Maths and Science in English.
A brief introduction of myself and my family is necessary to get a better perspective. My wife and I, aged 42, finished our primary and secondary education in Sekolah Kebangsaan and subsequently graduated in accountancy and computer science, respectively, in Melbourne Australia. We have two children, Standard 1 and 6, schooling in Sekolah Kebangsaan Taman Megah Petaling Jaya.

On hindsight the decision to pursue my tertiary education in Australia was correct and every single penny well spent despite the major financial obstacle and various challenges. I majored in Computer Science and Instrumental Science and hence, Physics and Mathematics are the core subjects throughout the course. I never grasped Physics until my 1st year and consistently received distinction and the credit goes to Mr Jack Venema my physics lecturer. During my final year, National Productivity Board of Singapore interviewed me and offered me a job upon graduation and so did State Electricity Commission of Victoria. But I declined both offers because my heart tells me to return home to contribute to the nation.

Before I delve into why we should continue to teach Maths and Science in English, let’s look back at the history of our education policy. The change to medium of instruction in Bahasa Melayu began in 1970 for Standard 1 and by 1983 the whole exercise was completed in tertiary education [read here]. Which means we’ve used Bahasa Melayu as medium of instruction for Maths and Science for 32 years.

Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad, our revered Bapa Permodenan, the architect of modern Malaysia, who transformed our agricultural economic base to manufacturing economic base, realized that if we don’t make our workforce be proficient in English, then the FDIs [Foreign Direct Investment - source of employment] will continue to bypass us. Already, we’re seeing a worrying trend of our traditional FDI investors like Motorola, Matsushita moving out to China, Vietnam, etc. and hence, his decision to change teaching of Maths and Science to English is one of his greatest gifts to Malaysia.

An extract of TDM’s speech entitled "Approaching 2020 – Major Trends that will Impact Malaysian Business" [read attachment for detail]

8. A mass consumer market will make local manufacturing more viable. And there are many things that we can produce. Like Korea and Taiwan we would learn to design and manufacture many things not just for our markets but for export as well.

9. Against this, expect increased and less restricted imports. We must be more competitive. We must develop skills in hi-tech products and we must pay higher wages. The days of low labour costs would have been over before 2020.

10. Our workers must be highly qualified and be trained in higher skills. The workers we would need must be able to handle and service automatic machines, not just assemble things. We will learn to design and produce some of these machines.

11. Training of the workers must be done at specialised training centres. Computer programmes will be needed to do this.

12. What all these means is the business of specialised education and training would become big business. The training centres would also cater for foreign students if we use English as a teaching medium.

13. Malaysia cannot any longer offer itself as a cheap labour country. But the chances are our highly trained workers would still cost less than similarly trained workers in the developed countries. This may mean a shifting of some middle range hi-tech industries to Malaysia.

14. Our advantage today is still the ability to take instructions in simple English. But there will be a spread of English language capabilities in China, Vietnam and other competitors of ours.

15. Accordingly our advantages seem likely to be eroded not only because others are acquiring working knowledge of English but we ourselves would probably downgrade learning of English.

16. I hope that the teaching of science and mathematics in English would continue. But I am not sure. If the decision is made not to, then the hi-tech industries are going to bypass us.

I agree with him that education system is one the most politicized subject. On his part, he has written detailed explanation entitled "MENGAJAR SAINS DAN MATEMATIK DALAM BAHASA INGGERIS" [read attachment for detail] addressing the Malay speaking community to convince them the importance of English. Personally, my encounter with a YB’s response on this matter ["..Mr 70% parents of vernacular schools are against it…] confirms TDM’s view. Lawmakers are more concerned about votes for their self-interest rather than nation interest by articulating to them to look at the big picture. Besides TDM, I have not heard of any other community leaders or lawmakers view on this very important matter.

TDM said "Malaysia is the most planned country in the world. But people do not follow the plans prepared for them. If people had followed the plans, we would have been a developed country by now." When TDM saw the opportunity in knowledge base economy, he quickly embarked on MSC in Cyberjaya. However, the FDI investors are not just interested in the first class infrastructures and venues and incentives. They needed competent IT workforce conversant in English but we could not provide enough for their needs. Instead, they have to recruit from Bangalore [our rival] which negates the purpose of MSC. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out why Bill Gates setup their only offshore software development centre in Bangalore because they’ve largest pool software engineers in the world.

Education System must be versatile and evolving to be in-sync with the changing employment needs. A case study of a strategic planning of Singapore is worthwhile. When Singapore government decided to open the two casinos, even before the operators were selected, they have started to introduce courses related to this industry. This is so that by 2010 when the casinos are open for business, the required skill sets are available. These operators are one example of FDIs and one of the operators is our homegrown company ie Genting Berhad. On hindsight, had our education system been planned and executed properly according to our FDI investors’ needs, today MSC would have been another economic pillar and we would be closer to a developed nation.

In my opinion, if we analyse carefully, the noises getting louder against teaching of Maths and Science in English are groups of people complaining about the symptoms of bad implementation plan. I would like to use the analogy of a ship. Education policy is like a big ship and the captain is the head of MOE, teachers are the crews and students are the passengers. If we see an iceberg ahead, the captain will change the direction and it takes time to navigate to avoid the obstacle to reach the final destination.

I think the most important question our policymakers should ask is what should be the determinant of our education policy ? Is it not employability ? Parents and students take pain to consult career guidance about career opportunity. If we agree on this then let us look at the big picture, otherwise why bother to spend 3 years prep school + 6 years primary + 7 years secondary + 4 years tertiary = a whopping 20 years!

Who creates employment opportunity ? FDI investors like Intel, Dell, Samsung, Motorola, Matsushita, etc are some the names we are familiar with. What will attract them to Malaysia ? What makes Dell setup their worldwide callcentre and laptop manufacturing plant in Penang ? Perhaps, Penang workforce have the necessary skill sets and have the necessary English proficiency. The same question applies to Intel's chip design centre in Penang. It is a fact that FDIs are getting scarce and we are competing with China, Vietnam, India and not forgetting Thailand, Indonesia and Phillippines. Hence, we need to continue produce the same skill sets to attract more FDIs.

What type of employment should we focus then ? As mentioned earlier, under TDM’s administration we have diversified our economy to industrial/manufacturing base. In the E&E [Electrical & Electronics] industry, we have to move up the value chain. We can’t continue to rely on simple assembly manufacturing because countries like China and Vietnam are offering cheap low skill labour cost to companies like Motorola, Matsushita,etc. The other areas are biotechnology, information technology, telecommuncation, pharmaceutical, etc

In the era of globalisation, to attract inflow of FDIs we must have the capability of producing higher value-added products which demands medium to highly skill workforce with the ability to take instruction in English. The goods produced are then exported and in return we earn foreign currency. Also, the spin-off FDI to supporting goods and services industry is enormous which create more employment opportunity. Through these economic activities, the Government generates revenue in the form of taxes to pay for the expenditure as outlined in the yearly budget.

Shouldn’t we be consulting with our economic think-tank such as NEAC, EPU, Bank Negara, MIER, ASLI, CPPS, MITI, Economic Council [newly formed] since they’re at the forefront of dealing with inflow of FDIs before we make any hasty decision on such an important issue ?

In my opinion, the main issue that we should focus our attention on is to iron out the teething problem of implementation and not whether we should revert. I am quite disappointed with NUTP for changing its tune. On 8/3/08 NUTP was very supportive with an article on NST entitled "Do the math, keep it in English" to 4/9/08 postion entitled "Teaching Science and Mathematics in English: ‘Wrong to learn language this way". Perhaps, they should read TDM’s speech again, "Approaching 2020 – Major Trends that will Impact Malaysian Business". It's the function of teachers to execute the education policy to meet the needs of the nation.

I am not an educator but perhaps, I can give some input on the student perspective. Let’s examine some facts about the implementation, beginning with an extract of from newspaper. Earlier in the Dewan Rakyat, Deputy Education Minister Datuk Razali Ismail said the Government spent RM2.21bil on information and communication technology equipment in 2003 to implement the policy of teaching Mathematics and Science in English. He said another RM2.4mil was spent on software, RM317mil to train teachers and RM638mil as subject incentives.

Since when does equipment become more important than human in teaching. I graduated in Computer Science without owning a PC and those days writing a program was using punch card and a very tedious process, contrast to today.

From an economic standpoint, the money spent on the equipment is an outflow of foreign currency because they’re all imported [at most, we assembled it]. I would rather that the money be spent on training teachers which also ensure the money stays in our economy. Wouldn’t it be better used if we tapped on the retired teachers and implement ‘buddies’ system where a retired teacher is assigned one to one basis and complimented by night classes.

I disagree with the notion that our students can cope especially those in the rural area. If the teachers are well equipped and confident then the learning process will fall in place. Ultimately, it’s how the lesson is delivered. The success is making learning fun and relevant to daily life and not about mugging and as with my experience in Physics. Besides formal learning, in today’s digital era, students are exposed to the Internet for additional reference source.

I would like to relate a story about a Malay friend who is now a CEO of a statutory body. He was remembered as "a student who came to school on borrowed shoes" and one of very few Malays in an English medium school. He was proud to tell me that he received a Colombo Plan scholarship and a Bachelor of Arts in Australia. My point is that it’s duty of the policymakers to give everybody a chance especially those in the heartland, as a means to get out of poverty.

I think it’s far more productive for MOE and principals, teachers concerned to have continuous discussion to smoothen the edges rather than raising the white flag at this stage. Remember our teachers managed to switch the medium of instruction from English to Bahasa Melayu in 1970s and I don’t see any reason why we can’t do it now.

In conclusion, Malaysia needs to attract more FDIs bring us closer to a develop nation and hence, MOE needs to produce more employable workforce who possess technical skill set and good command of English. Therefore, it is necessary to continue with teaching of Maths and Science in English. History will be our judge for whatever decision you make!

Yours faithfully,
Benjamin Choo
(A Concern Bangsa Malaysia)

ben,  12 March 2009 at 00:09  

The memo above was written representing my sons' school addressed to DG of MOE.

To quote HRH Kuli "We are in the infamous “middle Income trap”. No longer cheap enough to compete with low cost producers and not advanced enough to compete with more innovative ones, we find ourselves squeezed in between with no economic story."

His spot on analysis explains the outflow of FDI which our economic managers such as MITI are still in denial and have no clue how to address it.

We need two pronged strategy. 1st is being addressed in PPSMI, which is a continuing process and 2nd is retraining of low skill workforce in the market to produce the correct skill sets for the FDIs to be interested.

There is an urgent need to bridge the educators and business sectors so that we can address the issue of structural unemployment. The result of this is the growing number of unemployed graduates.

We need to address the flaws in our education system. Ask yourself these questions :-
1) Why must smart students be in science stream vs arts stream ? Asked the economists, accountants, lawyers whether they had to do Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Add Maths in form 4 & 5 ? Why put them through the torture ?

2) If we revert PPSMI to PPSMM, what will happen to science graduates when they enter the workforce. The bulk of the science graduates will join the private sectors where the medium of communication is English.

Ultimately, the most important consideration whether PPSMI should be reverted is EMPLOYABILITY, no ?

Anonymous,  12 March 2009 at 06:32  


I hope you have sent the memo to the DG, M of E. It's a good one.

You reflect the thinking of a true Bangsa Malaysia. I'm proud of you.

Anonymous,  12 March 2009 at 09:44  


I like to be the other side of the coin, ie teaching math/science in mother tongue in primary schools.

FIRST - what's the main criteria of PPMSI?

To improve English proficency?

To provide better grip of math/science understanding among school going children?

Based on what I read about TDM's 'smart' idea - it was English proficiency first and understanding of math/science second. hopefully both can go hand in hand. A stone with two birds!

If we want to improve English proficiency then the correct approach is to provide better English teaching environment/methodology to the concerned school children.

The most effective approach in this aspect IS the efficiency/capability of the English teachers that the children interact with daily. On top of that, an intensive approach of English-related language support in school.

And what do we have NOW? PPMSI?

Scientists/Engineers r the key movers of the modern technology & economy. Every country has to invest heavily in these disciplines. To produce good scientists/engineers, basic understanding of science/math is THE KEY.

How to cultivate these basic understanding/interest in science/math among the primary school children so that some of these children can move on to become the required scientists/engineers?

TDM's one-stone-two-bird hp6 approach is to PPMSI!

Think about the quadro-jeopardies as mentioned by Dato Sak about the rural schooling children & coupled with the political reality of a multi-cultures Malaysia, PPMSI is truly hp6 & a real life-improving obstacles. It does the opposite to what the one-stone-two-bird 'smart' cookies intended!

How can one expect someone to show interest in a subject when the foundation of that subject is taught in a foreign language by equally hp6 teachers, struggling with him/herself the use of that same language? U kill that spark of interest, period.

Many in the discussions here, forget that as if to produce good scientist/engineers WE must start teaching these subjects in English right from the primary. This is WRONG!

1) Most of the Malaysia school children DO NOT learn English as their primary tongue. English is alien to them. Thus the teaching of any school subjects in English can face tons of problem. This is even more so when dealing with conceptual/symbolic subjects like science/math.

UN studies have consistently show that teaching these subjects in mother tongue IS the most effective way to park the foundation ideas to the children.

2) Once these children has that basic understanding/spark then handling of those subjects in more advanced level will NOT be any problem, even in ANY foreign language. These fact has been mentioned by many in these discussions too.

To summarise, PPMSI is a destroyer of OUR children's future.

If one wants English proficiency among our primary/secondary/tertiary students, a more consistent approach must be adopted!


Eyes Wide Open 12 March 2009 at 12:12  

Mr Apocryphalist

"You should have ignored me."

That's the only sensible thing I've read from all your tangential EWO-bashing.

Thanks, I'll take your advice!

Anonymous,  12 March 2009 at 21:10  


This fellow (I think female) assumed Eyes Open Wider to be you.

You might want to see EOW's and my comments in the posting before this.

Anonymous,  13 March 2009 at 08:02  

Correction -

EWO assumes Anon (me), not EOW, to be Apocryphalist. Sorry.

How wrong she can be. She should have read several of Apocryphalist's master pieces. My English, my style and my caliber is nowhere near Apocryphalist's.

This fellow Eyes Wide Open should see that people do admit their mistakes and apologise.

It's called decency, upbringing, culture.

An-Nimr 13 March 2009 at 10:10  


A good memo, and yes, ultimately its the employability factor, the real world out there, kan? Tun has always been a very practical man. He can play politics with finesse (cept for the last Anwar fiasco..hehe, but I guess he was REALLY ticked off at this lawan tauke Anwar fella) but he always has the best interests of the nation and the people at heart, THAT he never compromised!


My kid has the same problem sometimes as your daughter's friend, sad to say..because her school is more Malay oriented and they don't encourage English expression too much. But the teachers resort to bilingual methods and works better now.

Btw, I think you should come in and clear your name...some mudslinging going on here between two Wide Open and the other Open Wider...heheh...and your name dragged into it.

(And oh, Apo! Loved your take on the Anwar/Pak Lah dialogue at Antics of Husin Lempoyang,...but I had to google all the Einstein terms meh!)

Anonymous,  16 March 2009 at 18:42  

Why should we worry about Maths and Science?Forget about all these...just go to ARTS stream..get Economics,Accounting or Law Degree >>future is better.Can become big boss in govt,GLCs and most major companies.Worse case can become politician...

U do a many of our leaders,CEOs,KSUs are science students?

And as for our Ministers,Excos, many are science students?TDM was unique..and going fwd ur not getting a science background PM for generations.

So...why worry about Maths and Science when this country rewards the ARTS graduates more.

I got distinctions in all Science subjects,a first class upper in Engineering at Imperial College >>and I am reporting to a 40 year old 2nd Grader who did ACCA in UITM...and he is reporting to a Senior GM who took 6 years to get his ACCA.And our need to talk lah

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