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Sakmongkol ak 47

ariff.sabri@gmail.com

Saturday, 14 August 2010

UMNO’s Islamization



 

A few days ago Chua Soi Lek came out with statements decrying UMNO's attempts to compete with PAS to show who's more Islamic between them. He was expressing concern that an UMNO reengineered on Islam will slow down our progress. Presumably he has read Syed Akbar Ali's Club of Doom. Everywhere he reads, progress has slowed down where Islam is on the rise.
But he is also sending the message to UMNO leaders- the problems faced by UMNO and this country shouldn't be solved by asking the wrong question- the problems we faced are not caused by less or more Islam. Khir Toyo who came out strongly to condemn Chua should not react as if to show he is championing the cause of Islam now. Would Khir Toyo like it if we say that the problems faced by Selangor now, is the result of him being less Islamic when he was the MB?
Why don't we own up the fact, that our social problems, our economic problems and our political problems have nothing to do with our religion but more with the policies we crafted and imposed on society?
Chua Soi lek must have been severely criticized by UMNO leaders leading him to backtrack and MCA to downplay Chua's opinions. But we all know, UMNO's sudden affinity with Islam is for show. Not that UMNO isn't Islamic, but we don't have to play the game of brinkmanship. UMNO stands for moderation. Chua is partly right to sound out that UMNO does not have to compete in that area. When it comes to Islam, UMNO doesn't have to be more spoon that the spadle. But Chua is making it appear that UMNO's Islam is a Talibanised version. If I were Chua Soi Lek, I wouldn't be overly disturbed by the scathing criticism by UMNO leaders nor would be overly ruffled by UMNO's Islamic tendencies.
The issue here I think is about Islam. Perhaps the MCA leader has been reading too much horror stories about Islam. And I won't also be overjoyed that Lim Guan Eng came out as though to defend that Islam isn't that bad as Soi Lek imagined it to be. Maybe Guan Eng is playing politics to show he is more sympathetic to Islam than MCA and Soi Lek.
Let's forget the game these politicians play. Let's see the state of Islam.
After 911, Islam is looked at differently. It is fashionable anywhere in the world, especially so in the west to condemn anything related to Islam and its people. Hence Europe has been referred to as Eurabia- expressing concern that European countries are overwhelmed by Muslim Immigrants. London becomes Londonistan. Jacques Chirac in one of his campaign forays told of how his Frenchmen were driven mad by the noise and smell of the immigrant father next door with 3 or 4 wives, 20 kids living off welfare payments without working. D' Estaing later even went further by trying to rescind France's policy of giving citizenship based on jus soli to have it replaced with the principle of jus sanguinis ( by bloodline). Imagine if this principle were to be applied in Malaysia, many of our leaders will not qualify as Malaysian citizens. The Chinese and Indians will never get citizenship. Dr Mahathir will not have qualified as Malay citizen.
Why is Chua Soi lek fearful of the Islamization of UMNO? Probably because he has read too many horror stories about Islamic radicalism. Unfortunately the ascendancy of Islam has also been marked with an ascendancy on tragic events. In London, the bombing of the underground station, The Madrid commuter attacks, the Paris Riots, the cartoon crisis in Denmark.
It is fashionable to equate Islam and Muslims as backward, unemployed, criminal and generally disengaged from rational political process. People say Muslims want power through violent means instead of rational political process. I have only one problem- how can people deemed to be backward, disengaged, lazy suddenly and inexplicably become strong so as to cause fear among others?
Chua is guilty with those who repeat the canard that Islam has brought de-progress whenever Islam is made the dominant motivational force. Hence his fears that UMNO wants to be more Islamic. More than PAS. He fears he will get stoned to death.
Let's see Soi Lek's thinking on this Islam issue a bit further. Perhaps what Chua is really saying is, Malaysia does not have to be overly Islamic because by being more Islamic this country will suffer in terms of progress. He accepts the general observations that none of the Muslim countries in the world has become a first world country. He is presumed aware of the statistics of under progress in Islamic countries- literacy rate, low income, idleness and so forth.
It is ironic that these are the same features that are used and perhaps can still be used to described Malays in Malaysia. Could it be then, Chua's criticisms are also veiled criticisms about Malays who happened to also be Muslims? Then Chua's attacks on Muslims and Islam in general can be re interpreted as criticisms on the cultural practices of Malays in particular. That really, the root causes as to why Malays achieved less progress are because of their cultural practices.
And of course the religion of Islam play a crucial role in Malay culture to such an extent that people like Chua himself is able to hold the view that to the Malay their religion is at the center of any discussion as if the only thing that defines their political convictions, their votes, their relationship with their neighbors, with people of other religions is their ability to pigeon-hole everything into halal and haram. And Chua Soil Lek fears, an UMNO re-defined in terms of fundamentalist Islam will haram everything.
While Chua's fears are legitimate( as he sees evidence of under-progress everywhere in the Muslim world) they are also flawed. They are because, the thought of blaming Islam for Malays under-progress is far too simplistic to stand the test of reality. It is as simplistic as the arguments peddled by the Muslim right wing which is that Islam and more Islam is for whatever ails Muslims. Wasn't it Khir Toyo who said that UMNO lost because we were not Islamic enough. I suppose being Islamic enough will allow us to own RM 18 million homes.
Perhaps what Chua Soi Lek didn't say was the march toward more Islam can be a threat to secularization and modernity. The threat may come in the form of spiritual tawdriness- that everything needs to be dovetailed into halal and haram things which to Chua and even modern minded Muslims can have debilitating effects. Soi Lek fails to appreciate that Muslims in general reject spiritual tawdriness if that term means Muslims use their religion as excuses not to cultivate themselves. Even PAS came out to reject Chua's statements which implied that Islam is anti progress.
Like many others Chua Soi Lek is quick to decry the problems that are caused by Muslims but is slower to identify the problems they face in their march towards modernity and progress. Similarly in our local context, we are quick to publicize the problems caused by Malays but slower to talk about the problems Malays faced.

39 comments:

Anonymous,  14 August 2010 at 07:39  

Its simplistic to blame Islam for the backwardness of Muslim nation. HOWEVER its EVEN MORE SIMPLISTIC to look to Islam for what ails Muslim nations.

That is essentially the gap between non-Muslim and Muslims in this country. Its a huge gap - a gap that DAP and PAS has been able to bridge for the moment in this time in history in our country. Its a bridge that UMNO did with their component parties for half a century with money but is clearly losing it. We should not underappreciate that.

HAKIMAN,  14 August 2010 at 08:55  

When Islam is politicised by the Govt of the day, debate on the pros and cons of the religion is par for the course.

It is a fact that this UMNO-led Govt in an attempt to one-up on PAS by the Mahathir regime so as to stifle PAS's popularity in the rural Malay heartland, as resulted in creeping Islamisation in the everyday life of not only Muslims but non Muslims.

For a Muslim, he/she does not realise the impact on others.

To empathise that, a Malay Muslim who has lived overseas, will know what it means when other religions are being made by the GOVT to encroach into your life.

The problem in Malaysia is that Islam is so severely politicised and Islam has been stamped into the minds of the Malays so much so that many prefer to be a Muslim first instead of being a Malaysian first.

If you ask mainstream American, Australian, Germans, French, British or the Chinese, they will always say their nationality/ethnicity come first, NOT religion.

So Muslims should NOT be surprised if non Muslims have an opinion about how Malay leaders bring Islam into the public domain.

sakmongkol AK47 14 August 2010 at 09:02  

anon 07:39

sorry, i dont understand your point. the first para- i said that already in mind article.

which gap does the DAP and PAS bridge? dispelling the idea that Islam is anti progress? would the DAP willing to accept a PAS rule then? i dont think so?

Anonymous,  14 August 2010 at 09:21  

Dato,

Maybe wrong choice of word?

‘I have only one problem- how can people deemed to be backward, disengaged, lazy suddenly and inexplicably become STRONG so as to cause fear among others?’

Irrational should be more appropriate! Yes?

shamshul anuar,  14 August 2010 at 09:31  

Dear sakmongkol,

Dr chua looks Islam from the view of non Muslims. Often, their view is shaped by western media.

However, Muslims in Malaysia are also guilty. We often say we love Islam but the attitude shows otherwise. Chinese community see UMNO and PAS as fighting each other, much to detriment of interest of Malay community.

DEAR HAKIMAN,
Correction. UMNO does not politicize Islam. The honour( or rather dishonour) belongs to PAS. It is PAS that goes all out to show that it has exclusive right on Islam.

It is PAS that issues fatwa to suit political taste. One time it is haram to deal with non Muslim in politics but it is 'siasah Islam" for PAS to kowtow to DAP.

PAS lambasted UMNO practically on anything from liquor, entertainment or weak governance. But once it is in power, it realises the term "easier said than done".

PAS put all kinds of "syarat" for UMNO but ignore major monumental difference with DAP. Anybody who tries to bring two arguing political parties to table talk automatically chided as "pecacai UMNO".

Tell me why on earth Dr Chua must respect Islam if this is the attitude of Malay political leaders. WE talk about Islam but our attitude shows how anti Islam we are.

Hakiman, it is true PAS has sizable Malay support. But just remember UMNO also has the support. Winning 78 seats is manifastation of UMNO's appeal in Malay heartland.

Dr mahathir just says the truth. Malaysia is recognised as Muslim country simply because majority is Malay, political leaders are mainly malays. It is of course does not practise Islam 100%. which country does anyway.

How hypocrite we can be. We lambasted UMNO for not doing enough for Islam( as if PAS does anything about Islam) . But when UMNO tries to implement Islam, we also lambast it as trying to outdo PAS.

Anonymous,  14 August 2010 at 10:05  

Dato,

Don’t u think that’s exactly what happened to the modern day Islam – ‘the form of spiritual tawdriness- that everything needs to be dovetailed into halal and haram’?

Yr comment has perhaps adequately answer this question – why in the early day of Islam, Muslims could be so much accommodating, such that they could ultilise/improve others achievements, halal/haram inclusive, to further their knowledge, which in turn lead to the greater glory of the Islam?

The later day Islamic thinking has jacket-strapped the minds of the Muslim creativity, so much so that nothing progressive had been achieved since the setting of this form of spiritual tawdriness’.

Instead, a form of irrationality, wrapped in human logic, is propagated based purely on the halal/haram perspective!

The dogma that Prophet Mohammad is the last messiah DON’T help - as it extinguishes anything new (both creative & distinctive)that come into this head-on conflict - for the source is already FINAL & been pre-determinated in advance.

Iff there is anything that the Non-Muslim fears most about Islam, then it is this nagging irrationality that can create havocs in a sensible world where processing logic is the norm.

So, still don’t understand why the West so much against Iran for her nuclear development?

Dato, sorry for this diversion.

The thought just come in & I just have to write in. Btw, Milton Friedman has another book – freedom to choose. It might help to put yr earlier thought into proper prospective. But then Friedman is a conservative rightist – JUST don’t read too much into some of his socialistic democracy rants.

Anonymous,  14 August 2010 at 10:51  

‘I have only one problem- how can people deemed to be backward, disengaged, lazy suddenly and inexplicably become STRONG so as to cause fear among others?’

Dato', it is not the backwardness etc that is causing fear among others. It is the perceived lack of respect for human life.

loveMyKris

Anonymous,  14 August 2010 at 11:20  

If Islam is practice in its the way it was being practice by the Prophet, no one should worry about Islam. However, the islamic practice by our leaders be it PAS or UMNO or PKR is way out. Our prophet left nothing when he wafat, our leaders has big assets -- to feed this generations.

ServiceB4Self,  14 August 2010 at 11:33  

Dato',

My understanding is that your message is simple, UMNO should not look at Islamisation of UMNO as a cure-all elixir but go down to the substance of the problem.

But on the inverse, by adhering strictly to the teachings of Islam wouldn't UMNO address most if not all of the problems within UMNO? Issue of money politics, fairness, leadership, corruption etc?

Anonymous,  14 August 2010 at 12:02  

Dato'
I have never commented anything on this moron MCA and now I am very angry for he who claimed to be a leader and yet failed to use his brain when commenting on an issue.
No wonder he was a good Blue movie actor as he doesn't need brain to do the job.
UMNO should whacked this guy and kick him out as he is the enemy within.
Dato' the best thing to tell this MCA moron is tell him to shut up and if he has nothing to say just keep quiet. Orang putih kata kalau terlampau pandai -very clever and which this CSL thinks he is but he is more appropriate as "memandai mandai" and the truth ...just hate to say it here.... meluat tengok muka si apek bleu movie actor ni.

PH Chin 14 August 2010 at 12:18  

Dato'

I agree with Dr Chua that UMNO is competing with PAS to be more Islamic in order to gain support from the Malay.

Tun Mahathir upstaged PAS by declaring Malaysia as an Islamic nation.

Since then the war between UMNO and PAS is focused on who is the champion for the Malay-Muslims.

To us, the non-Muslims, that's what we perceived.

Greenbottle 14 August 2010 at 12:50  

firstly for those who think that islam is the root cause of backwardness of the countries where muslims are the majority should realize this:-

1) Most african basket case countries are christian majority. and in this region philippine is a near basket case too.

2) Myanmar is a buddhist majority
country and what few other buddhist majority countries in this world (laos, cambodia etc) are no better than some of the so called backward muslim countries.

3) there are not too many hindu contries of the world but the great majority of indians in india
are basket case.

so are we to say that these respective religions are the cause of their backwardness?

the malaise of the malays are nothing more than what is also the malaise of so many other races that are backward; which is this; their primary cultural and behavioral psyche and tendency to slothfulness and laidback character.

fortunately for the chinese the jews and the western race this character is not their primary problem hence they are what they are now.

i'm afraid malays are lazy is NOT a myth.

unless and until we admit and overcome this cultural tendency we malays (who happen to be muslims) will never progress. UMNO can give whatever tongkats and supports and opportunities to the malays but it will just be like giving flowers to monkeys.

this is not unique to the malays, if not for the hardworking chinese thailand, indonesia, philippines etc will be nothing more than bangladesh or myanma.

and i'm afraid umno is NOT the answer to make malays better human beings....

and yes, you're absolutely right umno's current romance with islam is JUST FOR SHOW.anyone who isn't an idiot can see that.

and to the non muslims please stop hurting muslims and insulting Islam for you know that your religions too can be attacked likewise and are a thousands times more ridiculous than Islam (in the eyes of muslims).

Red Alfa 14 August 2010 at 13:11  

Salam Dato'

UMNO's Islam was the typical 50s and 60s Malay understanding and practicing of Islam. UMNO's Islam was caught flat footed in the 70s when young Malays with the girls in tudung began the dakwah of Islam's essence and essentials.

UMNO in the 80s went into licensing of imams/muftis but was successful only in making them utterly ridiculed for their Islamically spirited advocacy of UMNO's secularism. The irony is today UMNO claims Malaysia is an Islamic state!

UMNO wants to control Islam through control of masjids and suraus in the country but only succeeded in being so incongrous what with the many contradictions on Islam's basic tenets.

UMNO's Islamization is characteristic in making Islamic doctrinary rules as invasive of non-muslim rights and as being selectively enforced on Muslims as would the authoritarian Islamic government. It is quite the eye-opener PAS is now bearing the more moderate and expansive Islam in government.

No surprise UMNO is claiming PAS is appeasing to the unIslamic if not anti-Islam DAP.

Anonymous,  14 August 2010 at 13:23  

Dato',

Are you sure you have got the correct valuation of Khir Toyo's home? It was reported his istana cost RM24 million but possibly because he is more islamic and bumiputera than others, he was entitled to a bigger discount thereby leading to your valuation of his istana at a measly RM18 million.

Anonymous,  14 August 2010 at 16:04  

Islam is now open target...even BN component parties want to dictate how the country manage Islam.
Why isn't the "Head of Islam" giving these guys a severe knock on their head?
Surely,some issues are just off limits & shld be treated with lots more sensibility.One can;t use any issues;however sensitive to grain political traction.
Please someone tell our leaders on how to LEAD.

shamshul anuar,  14 August 2010 at 19:06  

Dear anonymous,

"It was reported that Dr khir's istana..".

How we can conclude the "istana" causes RM24 million is mind boggling especially it is no bigger than a RM3 million mansion by one minister in Seri Kembangan.

Are we basing our assumption on Speaker Teng claim? Aptly reminded in Kuran is to verify stories
especially from people like Teng or Raja Petra.

It is ironic that no one bother to see all receipts published by none other than Dr Khir himself on sale and Purchase of that house.

As for UMNO's Islamization, that is natural.

UMNO attracts many people, just like other parties. Some of these people have religious credentials.

Islam is not the preserve of PAS only. Pas is not the "only face" of Islam in Malaysia.

Anyway, Islam for PAS now not significant anymore. For sake of pleasing DAP, PAS is willing to renounce Islam as its anchor. It however uses Islam as weapon to counter UMNO.

That I am very certain especially after witnessing how "penceramah" PAS talks. I am amazed that they can lie, manipulate, curse, comdemn, ridicule slander in between Kuranic verses.

HAKIMAN,  14 August 2010 at 19:26  

Shamsul Anuar

UMNO is a secular MALAY party. PAS is an islamic party.

That distinction has to be made.

If UMNO wants to champion Islam, it should make itself also an Islamic party, but its mandate is NOT.

It took on the Islamic credentials BECAUSE of PAS. In the early years of UMNO, UMNO correctly positioned itself as a SECULAR party.

The creeping Islamisation is done by the govt of the day, for Kelantan, yes it is PAS,. But PAS is not the Federal govt and what we have today of creeping Islamisation even into the lives on NON Muslims is with the compliments of the UMNO-led Govt.

In Kelantan, PAS was very fair in its handling of Islamic issues with the non Muslims (just ask the Chinese and Indian Kelantanese). The PAS govt has always been consultative with the non Muslim communities in Kelantan when it wants to introduce policies that may impact on non Muslims.

Ever wonder why non Muslims support PAS, and they even have a non Muslim PAS Supporters Club. It is because PAS approaches the issues of Islam with the non Muslims according to Islam.

UMNO roughrides its islamisation programme onto the non Muslims. You see that in schools and everyday life. It is ok of Muslims, but it is NOT ok for non Muslims when these policies pushed by stealth by UMNO Malay bureaucrats.

You have got a myopic view of the issues here.

When UMNO takes on Islamic issues, non Muslims will flock to PAS because non Muslims, especially those in Kelantan who have experienced more than 20 years of PAS rule , know that PAS leaders got it right with the way they handle Islam viz a viz the non Muslims.

And credit must go to TG Nik Aziz for putting in place an effective and acceptable consultative process. And PAS Kelantan as a govt over the last 10-15 years had been fair to non Muslims without sacrificing the core values espoused in true Islam.

UMNO leaders and UMNO-lovers have to look inward that themselves why non Muslims would have no hesitation to vote PAS within the PA coalition into the Federal Govt and not UMNO.

There must be something right being done by PAS to the non Muslims in Kelantan especially.

Anonymous,  14 August 2010 at 20:00  

If you watch the movie, the Last Emperor, there's a scene where the eunuchs were attending to child emperor doing his potty business and sniff and proclaim the little boy's poo-poo as being fragrant. Everytime I read in the public arena about MCA or CSL criticising others, my mind keep going back to that scene and the eunuchs. Sorry, CSL may have made some good points in his speech but all that were lost in the way MCA and CSL carries themselves.

Peter,  14 August 2010 at 21:35  

One thing I know around the world... any country that mixes religion with politics get into a mess sooner or later.

Sri Lanka, Ireland, Alfganistan, India/Pakistan before the big split, Phillipines etc.

We are one of those countries. Now we spend more time talking about "God" issues forgetting that the world passes us by. Many are so fed up and leave quietly.

It is a pure waste of time shouting threatening others lilke " dont test our patience" for what? For trifle things.

Does all these religion thing bring us more money or more business or more Foreign investors?

Further as a non Muslim, many of the activities of Muslims are things we would not do because those take us too much time and too much distractions from our main activity .. making a living.

So in short, if you are to study the obligations of Muslims compared to non Muslims, the time spent on religion is really disproportionately high. At the end of the day, when one under performs, just don't blame others for their own failures.

Recent spate of abandon babies if you have not noticed, it started very soon after public announcements of caning to those involved in illicit sex. Now we are talking about the death penalty on young kids where just happen to make a mistake in their life for a few seconds fo pleaaure.

I read with sadness. What has our country become? Where are our values? Do we want to be the ONLY country in the world to have young girls waiting in death rows by the thousands? Are they thinking that after executing 100 young girls then the others would be afraid of pre-marital sex?

These guys are using pure brute force as typical of our PDRM where even a candle can inflame them.

That is why sometimes certain rulings are so very ridiculous in today's world and such stonings to deaths in Iran, S.A. are happening.

It is none of our non Muslims' business what Muslims do with their time. We carry on with our lives. We only hope we quarrel less on religion and concentrate on how to make everyone productive and make money more.

Do you know that even right now in the midst of stranded Pakistanis in the huge flood, the rescuers with food packets from an Islamic charity are still asking those stranded ... "are you fasting?" as the first words when reaching them and giving a disapproving look when replied in the negative.

How do others think?

If pursuing the religious agenda is the way to revive a country... and can make us into a high income country, then I wish to join in .. God bless our country(as a Christian).

Anonymous,  14 August 2010 at 21:45  

there was a time where the islamic civilisation were among the world's finest..what we see today in muslim nations is not the fault of islam..it is more the fault of muslims.

take a read at robert fisk's "the great war for civilisation"

Anonymous,  15 August 2010 at 01:23  

The problem is not Islam. The problem is Muslim.

Islam said you must be fair to all but many muslims don't.
Islam abhor corruption/gambling/abuse of power but many muslims practise it.
Islam didn't ask you to be racial but muslims said ketuanan melayu.
And so on and so forth.

Don't blame Islam but blame Muslims. It is the practise of muslims that is giving Islam a bad name. Period.

Anonymous,  15 August 2010 at 03:41  

Dear Dato,
Everytime one opens a blog or website in Malaysian press it is Muslim that and Muslim this. The Malay is too obsess with religion and spends too much time on it.
Read any website from Singapore or Taiwan, hardly anything about religion; mostly about economic and education.Dato ask yourself why there are so many abandoned Muslim babies? Has it got to do with Islam?
Malaysia is facing more severe economic problems in the coming years. By 2013 your budget deficit will so huge and you may need to go to IMF for help.Your ringgit will be on the run. If that is so that the Malays will suffer more.
Before any help IMF will dismantle your NEP and affirmative action. This will be very painful for the Malays. Ask the Greek.
IMF insisted that the pension age increased for Greece from 52yo to 65yo. Also the Greek used to get 14-month pay in a year; one extra before Christmas and one in Easter. Now it is only 12 month. IMF will do the same to you; your 13-month pay will become 12-month. Subsidies in sugar,petrol,cooking oil and flour will be removed. How painful will it be for the Malays?
Alternatively you could say that Malaysia does not need to go to IMF,but raise the money through sale of bonds. But then who would buy your bonds? A country that burns churches and temples; the world knows this now; an arrogant race who think they are Ketuanan without realising they have been conned by Dr M. On top of this your education system sucks. So what will it be? Islam or no Islam?

AA

Greenbottle 15 August 2010 at 06:32  

@peter 21.35;

this the kind of stupid and incendiery statements that gets muslims all riled up against ignorant non muslims like you.

in any good corporation and certainly in my company (which happens to be an american MNC) your stupid remarks can be filed under ethic and compliance .

your insensitive comments that you wrongly attribute to islam and among others including about 'fasting during flood in pakistan' is not only insulting but shows your complete ignorance about Islam and Islamic world view and you are imposing your own narrow and stupid personal world view to insult others.

We as muslims don't make comments about your religion no matter how stupid we feel some of them are so, show some respect and stay away from something that you're ignorant of.

and don't bother answering to me and explaining yourself. i don't debate with dogs.

shamshjul anuar,  15 August 2010 at 12:52  

Dear Hakiman,

Is it Islamic to denounce UMNO being friendly to non Muslims by saying it is "haram" to have political alliance with non Muslims in politics.

Is it 'haram". that was what I was told many times by PAS member everytime they opened their mouth.

Now, they are singing different tune. why something "haram" becoming "halal" now?

Please answer my question first. Please tell me whether that is the attitude of a Muslim or a "fasik'.

So, actually PAS is following UMNO's way. If you claim UMNO is secular( hallmark of PAS that is to label people just like POpe of medieval time), then is not PAS guilty by following a "secular party " tradition?

PAS has been consultative..." . Are you saying UMNO does not take care of non Muslims just as well?

Forgive me for saying this. No matter how great UMNO can be, it is difficult for UMNO to capture Chinese votes again simply because Anwar has promised everything under the star and moon to them.

Chinese in Klang Valley do understand that unlike UMNO in BN, PAS does not have the same stature. So, if BN loses, the community that is likely to benefit the most is Chinese as DAP controls PR.

Unlike Anwar, UMNO just cant sacrifice the interest of Malsys just to please Chinese community. Anwar is willing to do anything, not realizing that just like he manipulate sentiments, he is currently being manipulated.

The way PAS treats UMNO leaves much to be desired. It talks about Islam but the attitude shows otherwise. Mohd sabu challenges Dr Mahathir to sack anwar but later changed its stance to reap "reward in this world". Throw aside "dosa , halal or kebenaran".

So, Hakiman, do tell me why on earth "an Islamic party" like PAS (as you claimed) follows UMNO by having alliance with non Muslims WHEN for decades PAS said "haram" to vote for non Muslims in election.

Do "enlighten" me ( and practically everybody else" ) on why PAS needs to follow the path of " a secular party" like UMNO.

Or are you implying that what UMNO does is the sensible and right way?

Anonymous,  15 August 2010 at 14:00  

Shamsul Anuar

You said "It is ironic that no one bother to see all receipts published by none other than Dr Khir himself on sale and Purchase of that house".

I am sorry for you, you are too naive...if you know what they are doing behind our back, then u will curse them.

schenker78 15 August 2010 at 14:21  

"Hence his (Chua SL) fears that UMNO wants to be more Islamic. More than PAS. He fears he will get stoned to death.

we dont want chua SL stoned, we want him charged for Oral Sex and sodomy (if any) with that young chinese chick.... same as with Anwar Ibrahim and Saiful Bukhari Bapok in High Court and tried with same level and intensity as Anwar.... Can or Not?????

Peter,  15 August 2010 at 14:27  

@Greebottle ...

There is nothing to explain!

I did say,

" It is none of our non Muslims' business what Muslims do with their time. We carry on with our lives. We only hope we quarrel less on religion and concentrate on how to make everyone productive and make money more."

I could even have refuted your statements of backwardness of "Buddhist", Christian or Hindu countries every easily but didnt.

I only need you to just compare them within the same country under the same conditions. e.g. I cannot use Bangladesh because that country is always flooding.

Compare in Negeria 50% Christians and 50% Muslims and see how they fare would be a good indicator.
Compare the Christians in Phillipine and Muslims in Phillipines would be good too.
Compare the Bhuddists in Thailand to the Muslim South.

I do not want to conclude for you because obviously you would get very angry... as usual.


As you are not a guy for debate but rather very emotional... this "dog" would not bark at you anymore.

Cheers.

Also dont bother to reply.
This Chinaman needs to work to make more money to be able to send our children hopefully overseas.

ServiceB4Self,  15 August 2010 at 14:56  

@Peter
The issue as to the separation between the state and religion was a concept brought about by the rulers of many European states to stem the influences of the Vatican in their affairs.
Islam doesn’t have such baggage. There was never an Islam equivalent of the Vatican and if one were to appreciate the principles set out by the Islamic way of life, it is quite universal. It applies to the need to expand knowledge, strengthening one’s economy, principles of freedom of religion, care for all man, fairness, justice and many acceptable principle, encompassing system of a nation’s governance, societies’ interaction rules and rules governing your affairs with another human being. Shouldn’t such principle form the basis of governance of the state instead of being separated?
What you may perceive is the rituals that you see Muslims do, and thus you believe that that is all Islam is but clearly the requirements of Islam are far more than that. Probably, you can’t be faulted to believe so after all it is the Muslims that failed to exhibit the true requirements of Islam.

Anonymous,  15 August 2010 at 16:04  

Salam Dato Sak,

Do comment on Kelantan Dinar - I think its positive but how would other states in opposition hands would think of this?

Will this boost up the nation en route achieving higher income economy!?

-Ikan Tongkol-

shamshul anuar,  16 August 2010 at 00:03  

Dear hakiman,

what did he (Dr Khir )do behind your back?

As far as I know, he granted land titles to hundred of Kampung dwellers who toiled the land such as in Batu 13, Puchong.

Do you have any proof of his doing anything wrong. Meaning do not just listen. But with proof.

Dr Khir is already a millionaire before even becoming an ADUN.

Or are you aware what for example Mohd sabu did to his then maid in shah Alam?

DEAR HAKIMAN,

Yu have yet to answer my question. Why previously PAS said "HARAM" to have alliance with non Muslims in politics BUT now it is OK?

This kind of question never fails in making my PAS friends stop eating when asked during dinner.

The truth hurt, so goes the saying.

DEAR ANONYMOUS( 3;41),

"....A country that burns churches..". As far as anybody knows ( except you in this planet), the churches were burnt by individuals. Surely, anybody will never think of blaming a country for the arson.

If that is your reasoning, can I blame Thailand if a mosque was burnt down. And can I blame India when a 400 year old mosques razed to the ground to make way for a temple as demanded by fanatics.

And what is it with the word "Ketuanan" that really riles you. In my daily lives, I seldom hear Malays talking about Ketuanan. It is not a big issue in malay community.

We have "ketuanan Cina" in economy and we have "Ketuanan Melayu" in politics. Chinese reigns supreme in economy due to their perseverance and benign Malay rule. Malay earns political dominance by winning the election.

Just because Greece is banckrupt, does not Malaysia has to follow suit. Greece previous Govt lied about scale of economic problem just so that it is accepted in EU.

I respect Dr mahathir for telling the truth. I respect him for darinmg to go against IMF that literally destroys Asian economy by insisting of subsidy removal when Europe guards its agricultural subsidy jealously.

Any responsible govt must help the poor. Granted subsidy can be misused but in essence it is social engineering. It is easy preaching others such as not to bail banks and let market forces destroy the bank when it does not happen to you.

But when major banks in USA and Europe were in financial distress, these politicians were doing the very thing Dr Mahathir did; that is intervene to save the economy.

I understand Western media hate Dr mahathir. But they respect him. On the contrary western media and those in corridor in power love Asian politicians who are willing to "kowtow" to them.

Look no further. Anwar Ibrahim is one glaring example of that.

HAKIMAN,  16 August 2010 at 02:30  

Shamsul Anuar

Before I respond to your unsupported statement, " Why previously PAS said "HARAM" to have alliance with non Muslims in politics".

Give date, who and where was this statement made by PAS. Details, please so that it is not one of those propaganda of UMNO.

Evidence if it had been PAS's policy statement.

For example, just because Muhyiddin said he is Malay first and Malaysian second, does not mean that UMNO believes that every Malay in UMNO should be Malay first and Malaysian second.

Give me the supported evidence that PAS as a party has a stated policy that having an alliance with non Muslims is HARAM!!!

Until then, it is hearsay garbage manufactured by UMNO based on some PAS individuals giving their own version of PAS policies.

shamshul anuar,  16 August 2010 at 12:11  

Dear Hakiman,

Sorry for being sarcastic. Are you not aware of what was happening?

I am not an UMNO member . I am critical of UMNO too. Just like I criticize PAS.

All these years, all my PAS friends had been saying that it is Haram to vote for non Muslim or to have alliance with them.

I heard from horses mouth, so to speak. I heard in mosques in my kampung, from my colleague especially those from Kelantan, from ceramah.

But, of course now, they sing a different tune. If you want the evidence, go check yourselves.

Ask Hj Hadi what he said years ago. Check the blog with all fact, time mentioned. Nizar when questionned sin Perak State assenmbly said that there is nothing to show in PAS Constitution that it wants to esrablish Islamic state.

Just do not dismiss them simply because they criticize PAS. Verify if you do not believe.

PAS LIED about Dr mahathir ( alleged) admitting to be cruel to anwar. Only half his speech was recorded in CD.

To satisfy yourself, ask Mohd Sabu of his speech "Anwar aljuburi" when he challenged DR Mahathir to sack anwar.

By the way, bring Kuran and ask him to hold it before he answers it.

I admire the capabilities of PAS members to just "forget" what Mohd sabu said.

Maybe that is what Prophet Muhammad SAW warned Muslims that at one era there will be "fasik" who appears to be pious.

I stand with what I said. I meant what I said and said what I meant.

The truth shall prevail at the end.

If you cant accept the truth, it is up to you. Open your heart, search the truth ,be it from UMNO or PAS.

shamshul anuar,  16 August 2010 at 12:14  

DEAR HAKIMAN,

PAS twisted what Dr Mahathir said during his speech at Dewan Bahasa.

Only part of his sentence was loaded into CD, making him as if he admitted fabricating evidence against Anwar.

Hakiman, becareful with those who appear religious but will do all sort of these thing.

Anonymous,  16 August 2010 at 15:21  

I believe TDM also said he did not think Khir Toyol's istana only cost RM3mil and that is publish in the newspapers.

HAKIMAN,  16 August 2010 at 15:46  

Shamsul Anuar

You failed to answer my request. It is not good enough to take the word of PAS individuals or Pro-PAS muftis talking about politics.

You based your conclusions on hearsay, commentaries of PAS individuals and make generalised accusations. And then spread the LIE that PAS HARAM muslims to be associated with non Muslims.

Shamsul, you need to look into yourself first as a GOOD muslim, and I know YOU ARE a good muslim but unfortunately with the wrong brand of Malay politics , before you start using Islam or to engage Islam to play UMNO's negative politics.

If you or UMNO is using Islam to promote goodwill among fellowmen, promote harmony and fairplay, then that is NOT a problem to a Muslim whether he/she is in PAS or PKR, or to non Muslims in MIC.MCA or DAP.

Likewise, I had criticise my colleagues and friends in P AS if they use Islam to play negative politics.

You have to admit that PAS Kelantan as a Govt as an Islamic party has been fair to non Muslims in accordance to Islamic core values. The same CANNOT be said about UMNO. Just take a look at Perkasa, majority of its members are majority UMNO Youth or UMNO members or UMNO-lovers (You can cross check their memberships).

PAS is an Islamic entity but it IS a political party.

UMNO has not demonstrated it is using Islam or claim to be a party of members who are true Muslims in its politics for the last 40 years. ISA, the demonisation to the extreme of a fellow Muslim in the secular court, the demonisation of Zaid on drinking, the cowhead protest, and many more.

If you are an UMNO lover, you have no moral standing to criticise PAS, especially PAS Kelantan. Mahathir does not belong in the same MORAL classs of TG Nik Aziz. You can ask that to any decent Malay Muslim around the country or any non Muslim living in Kelantan.

In conclusion, you have NO evidence at all, except for hearsay and commentaries of individual PAS members and Pro-muftis to conclude that PAS has a policy to HARAM alliance with non Muslims in politics. It is as good as taking the words ofAhmad Ismail or those UMNO warlords in the Bahagian as say that it is UMNO's policy.

Anonymous,  16 August 2010 at 15:53  

Dato' Pemblog,

Agama adalah hak milik semua manusia dan atas sebab itu agama tidak boleh dijadikan hak ekslusif sama ada dari segi keilmuan, amalan atau asosasian. Sekiranya ini dibenarkan makanya fungsi agama untuk menyatukan manusia sejagat tidak akan tercapai.

Oleh itu dalam konteks lokal, sepatutnya tidak ada agama yang sepatutnya dikaitkan secara ototmatik dengan mana-mana kumpulan. Contohnya, agama kristian janganlah disinonimkan dengan DAP, Islam janganlah disinonimkan dengan Pas atau Hindu usahlah disinonimkan dengan PKR atau seterusnya.

Kefahaman yang betul dalam soal agama ialah, saluran politik sepatutnya digunakan untuk menjaga kepentingan agama tetapi bukan agama dijadilan alatan untuk menjaga kepentingan parti-parti politik!

Ini bermakna apabila parti politik bercakap dalam konteks mana-mana agama (Hindu, Budha, Kristian, Islam dsbnya), kepentingan agama akan mengatasi kepentingan diri tetapi bukan kepentingan diri mengatasi kepentingan agama.

Mengatakan ada kelompok manusia atau parti politik sebagai lebih Islami, lebih kristiani atau lebih Hinduini dari lain-lain insan atau parti hanyalah satu percubaan untuk berasosiasi dengan kesucian yang terkandung dalam agama untuk menonjol-nonjolkan diri lebih dari orang lain.

Apabila parti-parti politik berlumba-lumba menggunakan perkataan seperti Islam, Kristian, Hindu dsbnya sebagai nama atau lambang parti, ini menampakkan seolah-olah agama-agama membezakan-bezakan atau mengklas-klaskan penganutnya berdasarkan ideologi tertentu. Walhal agama itu sendiri tidak membeza-bezakan manusia berlandaskan kaum A/B, kaya/miskin, parti jumud/liberal/demokrat dsbnya.

APOLITIKAL

shamshul anuar,  16 August 2010 at 17:59  

Dear Hakiman,

Let me make it easy for you to understand the "elephant" before your own eyes.

1) Yes. I agree with Muhyiddin that he is a Malay first, Malaysian second. Do not judge him soi harshly considering the person who asked him ( kit siang) is anti Malay first, Chinese second.

What is wrong in admitting you care about your race. Caring your own race is not a sin if that is not the expense of other races.

2) Again you( the hallmark of PAS that is to lebel) have the habit of labelling people as "Pro Mufti'.

Since when I quoted A Mufti speaking. I did not base my writing on hearsay just the way PAS trying to link Najib with altantuya basing on hearsay.

I was told by numerous PAS members that it is "haram" to have alliance with non Muslims.

Of course, now they sing different tunes.

3) I am not an UMNO member. I do not use Islam for political gain. But I can vouch PAS used it to the maximunm.

I heard myself in "khutbah Jumaat" that a khatib cursed DR Khir as "munafik" just because public holiday in Selangor is on Friday.

When I confronted them, they were very upset. I told them turban and goatee may fool mere mortals but not Allah.

Yes. sir. It happened in Taman Kosas several years ago. But of course now, no PAS members would say Hassan ali is munafik eventough he is Selangor EXCO and Selangor still maintains Sunday as public holiday.

What hearsay you are talking about. Hakiman, ( sorry for being straight to the point), are you saying you pray five time a day and tries to lie to me by denying how PAS changes "fatwa" about alliance with non Muslims.

4) Cowhead protest. The Surau Chairman is from PKR. Vast majority of Muslims in Section 19 ( irregardless of political affiliation) are against the temple. So, do not blame UMNO in that issue.

Why location that reserved by Dr Khir was rejected by Khalid but a site in front of a surau was chosen?

5) Zaid being a drinker. I thought PAS uses the same pribnciple. Remember, your self appointed righteous man, Nasharadin, mentioned that UMNO candidate in Penang has 2 wives.

So, what is wrong in in using the same tactics. Ugly is that not? Next time, before preaching others, take a good look at yourself.

6) PAS is a political party that uses Islam for "nikmat didunia". PAStalks about islam only. But it does not care about Islam.

PAS wants to monopoly Islam the way Pope in Europe threatened European Kings to kowtow to them.

7) Harakah is full of lies. Malays( generally) are willing to tolerate rubbish if sugar coated with goatee and turban.

As an example, Harakah lies when JAIS took over management of surau Taman Kosas several years ago by depicting JAIS being cruel. The truth is that Muslims in that neighbourhood complained as PAS khatib tend to curse in between Kuranic verses, resulting in physical fight in the surau.

8) And you have yet to answer me why PAS still supports Anwar Ibrahim when 12 years ago, Mohd sabu( Vice President of PAS then) challenged Dr Mahathir to sack Anwar for being "Aljuburi". Please do not tell me that you are not aware of what Mohd Sabu, the joker, said.

(9) I stand by what i said. I have no respect for people who misuse religion for self benefit.

Having said that , I do not mean that I always praise UMNO. It also has my fair share of comment.

As much I hope UMNO does not disregard religion, I also pray that PAS does not abuse Islam.

HAKIMAN,  16 August 2010 at 23:17  

Shamsul Anuar, you said,'I was told by numerous PAS members that it is "haram" to have alliance with non Muslims. '

There is nothing more to discuss. You based your accusation of others on hearsay.

"...I was told by numerous PAS members..." That says much about your attitude.

I will say, " I was told by numerous UIMNO members that they don't consider themselves Malaysians, but as Muslims".

I end my discussion with you on this issue because your response has just lowered a few notches of my intelligence.

Enough said.You should now go and spread the gossips you hear from your PAS friends and neighabours to your fellow UMNO lovers.

shamshul anuar,  17 August 2010 at 17:30  

Dear Hakiman,

It is up to you to choose to believe what you want to believe.

The truth is that I know you lied by pretending not to aware about this.

You can go on continue pretending. You did not even bother to answer my question on MOhd Sabu's allegation about anwar.

Why? No need to answer if you choose to lie.

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