Perak: Cooperating for a solution.
Two blogging lawyers whom I know have written on the Perak issue. The Blogger Smalltalk has written 17 times on the Perak issue. Lawyer Kampung has given his gloss on the same issue. Smalltalk approaches the issue more from a legalistic angle. Thus he asked why the Nizar vs, Zambry case was not distinguished from the Kalong Ningkan case of Sarawak. If anyone were to read the judgement, it is a fairly long one. By distinguishing, we understand it to mean, identifying facts and features that will allow us to reach a different decision. The Ningkan case was decided in favour of the plaintiff, Ningkan. The judgement which we would have wanted is decision in favour of Zambry, distinguishable on a number of facts so succinctly pointed out by Smalltalk. Lawyer Kampung's idea, to me is more practical and politically feasible. We shall expand on this later. I was talking to a friend yesterday about the impending judgement. The conversation took place before the judgement. I volunteered that Zambry will lose and judgement will be in favour of Nizar. My friend retorted- how could that be? We need not be bound by the laws set long ago by our colonial masters. We must rewrite our laws now. I answered, from a non lawyer's point of view- perhaps the issue boils down to the question, whether the method in determining who has majority confidence as done by HRH Tuanku Sultan Perak can be accepted as the right method. To my mind, the only right method is a resolution on the floor- i.e. convening a Dewan sitting. By Dewan sitting I mean, as it is commonly understood. Now, HRH Tuanku acting in his personal capacity, determining the majority according to the method which his highness did, can be argued as not constituting the right method. Done not in a sitting Dewan, opens the decision to be questioned as being done in secrecy and decision dispensed in such a manner will be regarded as unfair decision. If not corrected politically, that would expose the palace to public odium. If that method is NOT accepted as the correct method in determining who has majority and who has lost is, then Nizar will win. That was my simple reasoning unaccustomed as I am on the technical reasoning of the law, amply stated by Smalltalk. As a former ADUN, as I understand it, Dewan transactions are done in sitting and that assumes that the King is also in council. All bills are passed in the name of the King. I find it politically strange and strenuous to infer, that the King acting not in the Dewan, but in another place, in the company of one compliant bloc, makes a decision and that decision is to be regarded as done in a Dewan sitting. That reasoning is suggested as correct ONLY because technically, the Sultan is part of the Assembly. If that is politically accepted, then, it can also be accepted in future, all Dewan businesses need only be conducted in a 'star chamber' presided by the King. With due respects, I don't think that's how a democratically elected Dewan works. A practical solution? What did the PM mean when he said the BN is willing to cooperate with PR on the issue of Perak? Since he has stated it, we can reasonably conclude, the form of cooperation rules out a coalition government. That would in turn mean, the PM is desirous of finality on the issue. The finality which he meant could only be reaching a clear cut decision. Either the people of Perak want the PR government or BN. They must decide via elections. If everything is decided by the people, where then is the form of cooperation as intimated by the PM? We might as well stand back and watch. We must assume that PR is also agreeable to cooperation. Each party is desirous to make this episode as least painful as possible. One possible way to show both parties are willing to cooperate and desirous of securing the greater good for the people, is to confine the elections to the 4 DUNs which were the source of this political mess in the first place. As I have written in the preceding article, after the 12th GE, the equation was:- PR= winner/govt. BN= opposition and loser. The cooperation offered may be willingness by the federal government led by PM Najib to revert to status quo. That means accepting the political equation as above. It is a willingness grounded on a desire to spare the rakyat further sufferings. The above equation was destroyed when Nasarudin of Bota and the trio from PKR did what they did. Since they were the cause to the whole mess affecting the political equation, let us; in the name of cooperation agree that elections be confined to the 4 DUNs. Indeed, if the PM makes the first move to suggest to PR- lets contest in the 4 DUNs, the PR government has no choice but to cooperate. Refusing to do so, would mean, the PR wasn't interested to cooperate and by extension, not willing to minimise public discomfort. Nizar may be hasty in going to the Palace intending to ask for state wide elections. The less painful and less costly option is to cooperate and agree elections be held in the 4 contentious DUNs.
45 comments:
najib's sunday call to cooperate came in response of Kit Siang's offer to cooperate last saturday.
u r rite datuk. PR must agree for the 4 by elections. if not they kena label as bunch of hypocrites.
Exactly what I suggested in my comments ..let the froggies ( who are now independents btw) be judged by the people.
But,you can't force anyone ( on a selective basis) to relinquish their posts...thats also unethical.
I am certain that you won't be too happy if DS Najib ask KJ to vacate his MP post and go for a byelection.
Thus..only real solution is go a fresh State election.
anon 10:27
ini bukan soal kj lagi. the 4 are selected because they were the cause of the whole mess.
mana ada link dengan KJ? dia tak lompat ke PR kan?
can we move on beyond KJ issue?
Datuk Sak,
If the 4 were to "vacate" their seats, wouldn't there be a "waiting" period before those 4 can "re-contest" unless those 4 seats were to be filled by others?
Agree with you Dato'. Masalahnya kenapa UMNO/BN takut menghadapi rakyat sedangkan UMNO/BN mempunyai harapan di 33 kerusi. Sebagai contoh P.Panjang kawasan Nizar adalah kubu kuat UMNO tetapi jatuh ke tangan Pas kerana di DUN ini, BN telah meletakkan calun MIC semenjak dulu lagi yang hanya muncul semasa pilihanraya dan selepas itu menghilang. Begitu juga di DUN Hutan Melintang dan DUN Behrang. Pulangkan kawasan ini kepada UMNO kerana orang melayu tidak tahan dengan gelagat wakil MIC yang diletakkan di situ. Selain itu, dengan usaha kuat dan strategi yang betul UMNO/Bn boleh menang di Cangkat Jong, Changkat Jering, selingsing, Lubuk Merbau, Kuala Kurau dan Titi Serong sementara mengekalkan 27 kerusi yang sedia ada.
Datuk, kita boleh menang kalau kita tidak takut untuk bertarung. pemimpin UMNO/Bn memberi gambaran dan tidak beryakinan untuk menang jika pilihanraya diadakan. Tolong yakinkan kepada rakan-rakan Datuk di Putrajaya bahawa kita boleh menguasai Perak semula.
mokhtar adnan
Dear Sir,
a fresh State election might ensure a bigger majority win for whichever party. This might prevent a slim majority win and another round of "froggies" determining the outcome of the state government's legitimacy ?
What do you think ?
Before the end of the day,the situation may change again.Maybe the Federal Courts will not read 16/6 as literally but more on the substance.
Another round of events will be triggered off and some people will be "dis suspended" and some will be suspended again.The blurred chair of the Speakers remains unresolved,the resignation letters of the three remains an issue,teams of lawyers will be shuttling between ipoh and putrajaya..is this democracy?
Democracy is for all the constituents,the people and not exclusive to lawyers,judges and politicians.
DS Najib,Anwar,Lim Kit Siang,Hadi...pls do the right thing for the people of Perak specifically and Malaysians generally.
We need to recognise that when a person contest in an election, they contest as an individual for the election laws provides that all rights and liabilities during such election are shouldered personally. If such a person belongs to a political party, that person is granted a "licence" by the relevant political party to use the symbols of that political party.
The rights of association is guaranteed upon a Malaysian citizen under the Federal Constitution. Thus, it would be unconstitutional to prohibit a person from changing his association from one political party to another.
The Constitution and the law seems to provide that there is nothing wrong with a person changing parties especially since it is that individual that would bear the liability or the odium by the voters.
Unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, most of the voters in chosing their representatives rarely make their choice based on the individual candidate but would base their choice on the Political Party that the candidate belongs to (or in PRU12 - the Political Party that he doesn't belong to). This runs contrary to the provisions of the Constitution and the laws of Malaysia.
We have a disconnect between the Constitution and the reality on the ground.
To require the 4 ADUNs to resign to pave the way for a by-election, would therefore deny these 4 ADUNs their Constitutional rights.
Until we amend the Constitution and law to adopt the reality on the ground, I can't agree to deny these 4 Malaysian citizens their rights under the Constitution.
Till then, all parties should adopt and comply with the Constitution (Federal or State as the case may be), least we are accused of "moving the goalpost".
1. for the benefit of Perak, can both PR and BN calls for bilateral truce, at least for the coming 48 hours? This will let the high court decision to settle down for both parties to work on the co-operation process.
2. Since these issues become full blown due to 2 reps, Changkat Jering and Behrang, and since they have dishonour Muslims when they equate their sexcapade with sedekah, can both PR and BN with HRH's consent requested these 2 to vacate their seats? From thereon, whoever gets the majority rules the state..
3. Both PR and BN to jointly agree that both parties will not entertain nor solicit support to destabilise the state government and no "hopping" or shift of allegiance allowed.
The masses are tired of by elections...i think it is time to move on. Having the statewide elections will drain our limited resources. The only persons happy with state elections are the politicians since it is their full time job to politicise everything under the sun....
4 by elections maybe too much, let's stick with 2...unless Hee is willing to vacate her seat too...
Dato'Sak,
There will be no ending to Perak crisis if there is no state election being held.
No amount of arguments (law) will end this !
so, the state election will be the only way out, let the Rakyat decide to whom they want as their government.
Dakis.
Not being a lawyer, I can only ask questions and venture a layman's view or two.
Isn't the Perak MB case a matter of substance and form? The substance was that Nizar was deemed to have lost the confidence of the majority of the Assemblymen. The form was that the loss of confidence was to be determined in a sitting State Assembly.
Nizar's lawyer argued that Assemblymen might change their minds between the time the Sultan deemed the loss of confidence and the sitting of an Assembly to determine such a loss of confidence. If the Court were to go by that, then when is the time limit for changes of mind, expecially in the light of lompat melompat happening in Perak. Then there might be endless arguments on the date of Assembly sitting, especially in view of questions on whether the previous Assembly adjourned sine die or whatever the legal jargon for it. And does it not also involve the Sultan's consent for the sitting, the Sultan having deemed that the Nizar Government has lost the confidence of the majority of the wakil rakyat?
Not having read the apparently lengthy Court decision, one can only conjecture that the Kalong Ningkan precedent came into play in a big way. Decades have passed by since. The law may be the same but the facts must differ somewhat. There must be different interpretations based on differing facts. These are what we hope to see in the coming appeals and counter appeals.
BN is not likely to feel comfortable yet about their chances of winning state-wide or even the 4 DUNs elections. DS Najib has just taken over power, the "awakening" of those who voted the opposition in protest during PRU 12 is by no means thorough yet, the results of recent by-elections have not shown satisfactory proof of a come-back of BN supporters. So, it's difficult to expect state-wide or 4DUNs elections in the near future.
What happens to the people of Perak in the face of long, drawn-out legal battles? They'll have to grin and bear it. They dared to show dissatisfaction with BN in ways that allowed the opposition to make fairly deep inroads. They should take responsibility for their action.
No doubt the opposition would exploit the voters' sentiments to the hilt. But Anwar, DAP and others have been doing it anyway. And now BN can also keep telling the voters to choose wisely and not vote those who will bring about this kind of frac'as.
Do I sound a BN man? Believe me, I'm not even a member of any political party.
one technical question AK47,
how could an appeal court grant a stay of execution to zambry when the earlier court ruling maintains that nizar was and at all material time is the mb?
or is this too technical?
Zambri got his stay from the appeal court?Nazir hv to vacate his post as MB...shortest appointment in history of world (19 hours?).
2moro zambri goes to office.
the 7th may proceedings deemed valid.
speaker is ganesan.
the ketua kampungs say bye bye.
Wats the whole point?This madness hv to end.
Sorry. I disagree. Only contesting for 4 seats is not the solution since it has already escalated beyond that point. PR initially only wanted to do 3 seats but that was defused by the EC. A full state reelection is the right solution. Why? I cannot accept that elections is a burden to people because it empowers them to choose. Your reasoning is flawed because I always believe the fresher the mandate (which includes the latest opinions/mindset of people towards their leaders) the greater the acceptance level of people toward the government.
And if they refuse to vacate their seats, Datuk Sak?
Dalam mengemukakan jalan penyelesaian sebegini, jelas Datuk Sak secara implikasi mengatakan tiga ekor katak yang dikatakan 'BN-friendly' sebenarnya dibawah telunjuk jari-jemari UMNO? Ingat, surat peletakan jawatan asal yang dikemukakan oleh Pakatan ditolak sama-sekali oleh SPR.
Just wondering...
I would like to be optimistic but events that cropped up painted a different picture. I don't think DS Najib will agree to your suggestions because it's 'predicted' that UMNO/BN won't fare well judging from results of past by-elections post 080308. UMNO is still not sure whether to contest Penanti and expecting it to agree to the idea?
Dear Sir,
I think it is a feasible suggestion. A great one actually.
Thanks.
"Less painful and less costly election" ......... for whom.
Certainly not for PR as they do not need to spend that much as compared to BN.
Furthermore, I feel that spending such money is better than whatever stimulus package, at least this way the money flows down to the rakyat.
After all the people of Perak and PR have gone through, having only 4 by elections is unjust and unfair, while you seem a moderate and your views are respected, let a state wide election be held, let the results truly reflect the will of the rakyat.
4 by elections only plays into the hand of BN (sorry to say this as I know you are an UMNO man)and I think u as well as everyone knows this.
But then again, the Court of Appeal verdict this afternoon is a powerful leverage
Anonymous of 12 May 2009 14:06 said and I quote :
What happens to the people of Perak in the face of long, drawn-out legal battles? They'll have to grin and bear it. They dared to show dissatisfaction with BN in ways that allowed the opposition to make fairly deep inroads. They should take responsibility for their action.
No doubt the opposition would exploit the voters' sentiments to the hilt. But Anwar, DAP and others have been doing it anyway. And now BN can also keep telling the voters to choose wisely and not vote those who will bring about this kind of frac'as.
Do I sound a BN man? Believe me, I'm not even a member of any political party.For someone who claims not to be affiliated to any political party, you sure have a slanted view of democracy.
To you, it is somehow the fault of Perakians in exercising their absolute right to choose which ever government that they have in mind. Since they've chosen against the entrenched party, then they should just lie down and "enjoy" the rape.
The way I see it, people who stole a state are criminals against the constitution itself, and the entirety of Perak people.
I pray that HRH would see reason and dissolves the state assembly.
Mahkamah bubarkan DUN dan pilihanraya sekali lagi buat seluruh negeri Perak.
Dato" Sak,
A state wide election wont really cost much if the cap to election expenditures is adhered to. Unfortunately BN loves to spend money because by spending the Rakyat's money they can pilfer some for themselves.
Maybe we can get people like the guy from the gaming company is is purported to pay off Hee Haw to the tune of RM25 million to foot the state election?
Another solution to this country's political mess is to get the current PM and DSAI to retire from politics. Malaysia may be better off without these two.
The one person in UMNO who is speaking some sense is Tengku Razaleigh. Go for fresh elections. The sentiment on the ground is so against BN that at this moment, it has already lost the next general election. Going back to the people will be damage control.
Mohd Ridzuan
For your information, I'm one of those who is grinning and bearing it.
I live in Selangor. I didn't cast my vote during PRU 12, wanting BN to get a reduced majority and shock Pak Lah into ceasing the auto pilot and not sleep during meetings, etc. Unfortunately for me (not a BN man but still believe the country would be better under BN), Selangor also went to the opposition. Since then I grinned over the alleged 46 cows, the so-called naked cow, etc.
But, my friend, I take responsibility for my action (or non-action i.e not voting). Let's all take responsibility for the mistakes we make, respect the law and follow the legal processes. As the law says people can appeal and counter appeal, so be it. Let's wait for the results, grin and bear them.
It's not having a slanted view of democracy, my friend. It's a matter of facing the reality of the situation. It's a matter of owning up to any wrong we may make. The whole issue began with the lompat melompat thing. It's not rape or anything. Where people disagree, leave the matter to the Courts to decide. That's democracy.
Dato' Sak,
The PM has announced that there won't be any snap election for Perak. How can the people trust and respect such a government when they are not willing to face the rakyat?
Salam Sejahtera Tuan Rumah,
Maafkan saya kerana menerjah sebegini rupa dan lari dari topik. Ingin menumpang lalu untuk menyelitkan permohonan saya kepada pengunjung-pengunjung di sini.
Saya memohon anda semua untuk ke ke sini, KijangMas - DemiNegara, dan menyatakan sokongan anda dipetition online, kempen SATU SEKOLAH UNTUK SEMUA.
Di sana, dipaparkan memorandum "SATU SEKOLAH UNTUK SEMUA" yang ditujukan kepada TPM selaku Menteri Pelajaran.
Pohon sokongan anda semua.
Salam sejahtera,
"SATU BANGSA, SATU NEGARA, SATU BAHASA"
NJ
Sak
There is one problem to force a by election in the 4 DUNs.
They are not part of BN or PR. They are Independents.
They don't have to resign nor do they have to answer to BN technically.
There is only one way which they can be forced to resign by BN/Najib.
And that is the bribe for them to defect from PR has not been paid fully. That is, if they don't resign they would not get the remaining millions owed them for defecting!!
I think Najib's hold on these independents is because they have not been paid in full by BN/UMNO for their defection
What majority is considered stable? What if the result of the new election 30 - 29? Back to square one!
And then there'll be calls again for another new election. Sampai bila daaa...
Why not take a vote at a special sitting? Make it a secret ballot. If BN wins, Zambry can continue as MB. But if Nizar wins, he can dissolve the DUN like he so wishes. But of course he won't do that, would he? Goes to show that he has no majority when seeking for the dissolution in the first place.
Askar melayu
Well if there is a 29- 28 then the 29 takes the govt... simple. Why so difficult to understand that and all parties adhere to that status quo. But then do you really think it would be 29/28?
About your suggest of a secret ballot...
Which is more relevant. Go back to the rakyat to prove you have the right to govt or condone unprincipled frogs to determine the govt of the day?
While the entire episode now is BN vs the people of Perak (supporters of BN and PR). That is what it is about.
PR wants the people (BN and PR supporters to have their say) .. BN wants to deny these people their rights to determine who rules them for the next three years.
Very silly actually. In the end , all parties have to face the rakyat and we know who is doing the most damage.
anon 10.39
"Well if there is a 29- 28 then the 29 takes the govt... simple. Why so difficult to understand that and all parties adhere to that status quo."
Yes, it is that simple, same as 31-28!
Condone unprincipled frogs, you said. I am still waiting for the Super Frogs since September 16 last year. Btw, why don't you mentioned the 'unprincipled frog' that was embraced with opened arms by Anwar and yes, yes, yes, Nizar? Remember the press conference and the jubilant Anwar?
When talking about frogs, nobody can hold the moral high ground anymore. But I understand what you're trying to infer, frogs that jump to PKR are principled but not otherwise. Very wise, indeed!
anybody understand wat "stay of execution" that mr zambdhidela got from the courts today?
he was pronounced to be the MB all along in the high courts...which in effect means that there was never another MB.Thus,the stay is in effect meant for Mr Nizar not to hv the powers of an MB but neither does it accord the powers to anyone else.
Looks like Perak will have no MB,2 Speakers,4 Froggies...and lots of FRUs for some time yet.
Btw...by the reasoning of the judge...whereby if Nizar can function as an MB...he may just request for bubarring..and if the Sultan agrees..there will be snap elections >>thus making Zambdhidela appeal superfluous...hey bro Zambdhidela >> why so negative?U may win the elections...why worry?And presumably ur sacking of the Speaker does not make subsequent court cases superfluous too.
I am confused ..legal minds are complex but the bottom line is BN is running scared of having an election...sad n inconsistent for a majority populist govt as Mr Zamdhidela insists BN is in Perak.
This is really transparent governance..like wayang kulit?
Dato
I think The grey area here is that YtakBerhormat Jamal and YtK Osman are facing a bribery charge - which sure kena punya if masok court. Hee 's case is internal party probs. Nasa is a very confused man-internal too.
But those 2 idiots were held by their balls (if they do hv any) to defect-that is the perception on the ground.
The rakyat see all these as a manipulation,extortion and abuse of power by Najib, not so much as the issue of bribery, we cannot count out the possibility though.
Charge them in court, jail them and BE in the 2 DUN. If BN win, I dont think rakyat will be angry.
But to manipulate and extort, Hello Mr PM! we are in the 21st century where we can view Perak DUN proceedings online LIVE!! Info travels at the speed of light- worldwide some more!.
Remember the PC on 11th when Najib said "We will sort out the PROBLEM?". I wonder, is the judgement the problem...or the High Court judge the problem? By the way, did anybody see the judge around yesterday? Or is he in Kamunting already?.
Jamal and Osman are the damn excos. Why on earth would state excos defect to become ordinary ADUNs? Can anyone give a good reason? ( leave stupidy and sex craze aside pls).
Otoote
Askar Melayu...
I am the same Anon answering you...
Now if there is AN ELECTION and even if it is 28-29 the majority should rule the state ! and no more frogs like you seemed to condone. No more going to court.
But then how sure you are it would be 28-29. Why not 50-7? Nobody knows for sure.
There is a world of difference between potential Sept 16 frogs and this Perakian frogs. The latter you know their quality and for what gains? You know right?
Potential Sept 16 frogs get nothing.
And further more, not all condone this Sept 16 frogs which NEVER happened. This Perak frogs did happen.
Anyway.... all Pakatan wanted is just let the people like you and me decide who should rule. That means it includes BN supporters too. So you see, what is the real fight now in Perak... the people of Perak(which includes the BN supporters ) Vs BN !
How silly can one get?
Great idea, Dato'
But what struck me as ominous in your article was your friend believing that we 'should rewrite our own laws' and not continue using the laws inherited from our 'colonial masters'.
Gosh! Are there a lot of people who believe that?
I am no lawyer but I believe (maybe wrongly) that our laws are based on the English common law, which is very much based on common sense and centred strongly on just principles. Why rewrite a good thing for political expediency? That may serve some short term interests but in the long run it may turn around and bite us in the butt.
My two sen's worth.
Bystander.
Sak,
Better to dissolve the assembly and start again.The final result if its bn or pakatan the people will accept it.The people want it that way and let it be that way.
Only the greedy umno still believe they are in high heavens!Well the thoughts of the perakians is now the ruling party is race centred.All malays aduns majority.
Nope they will never in their blinkers allow re-election for the four sits you suggested!They know their maths and be whacked and lose their rule
Dear Dato' Sak
The peeyem today said he shall leave to a guy (who thinks he's as great and just like Gandhi-ji OMG) to settle the crisis in Perak. I wonder long and hard if the illegal state agogo-men will even consider cooperating because they will surely doom to massive defeats at any bye-elections and top it of with no support from your ketua? Oh my, thats a sure lethal blow!
The ball is in BN's court now, not PR's. YB Nizar and his men have my highest respect for the coolness they have shown us so far.
How i wish BN men and makciks would stand up as real gentlemen and ladies because now they act like kiddies at kindy. What a spoilt, rotten brat!
Dear Dato' Sak,
I wish too much but how i wish you and good people remaining in UMNO could do something for Perak people and us, Anak Bangsa Malaysia, at large.
While I agree that new elections must be called and that the 4 "apostates" were basically responsible for this mess. Nevertheless, how can BN justify asking them to resign, when in the first place the courts and BN have already said that right of association must be upheld. Furthermore, the whole mess happened because of the fact that BN saw it as legitimate and the courts concurred that the act apostasy was legal.
To ask them to resign would basically mean that what BN and the courts have been saying is Bulls**t.
If redemption is what BN wants, then state wide elections is what is required, BN must show the country that in order to do the right thing by the Rakyat, it is willing to lose a state that it immorally (in the eyes of the Rakyat) wrested from PR.
From there at least, BN would have cleansed itself and able to speak without irony and ridicule from the Rakyat. Right now what ever BN does will be seen as insufficient.
Whether PM Najib likes it or not, redemption will only come with state wide election conducted in a manner which the Rakyat believe to be fair.
BN with the support of the 3 independents have the majority...its so simple really.The Sultan met the 28 plus 3 and confirmed this.
But PR confused the issue cos Nizar was insistent in remaining in power.
As to the staus of the 3 "resignation letters"...EC have ruled that it is not valid cos the three have said that they are STILL ADUNs.Furthermore..there is clear cases in the past whereby presigned undated resignation letters are not valid.
Of cos..u can't go to the DEWAN cos the speaker is suspending every one in sight to ensure that PR will not lose any votes.
We should forget about all the unfounded issues that ppl are presumimg to be reason why the three decided to support BN..
We should only look at the OBVIOUS...and sitting in the DEWAN is better then under a tree.
THE OBVIOUS IS BN has the majority and should rule...SIMPLE.
Why should DS Najib seek redemption?
BN with the support of the three independents have the majority...
Its PR that have to play fair...have a Dewan sitting and hv a vote of no confidence on Nizar...BUT PR with the Speaker is intent on preventing that by all the SUSPENSIONS...its a sad day for democracy when SIMPLE things gets twisted.
Anon 9.57
Are we talking about the same frogs here? What difference does it make? Frogs are frogs!
Nasa was a frog when he jumped to PKR. It was for democracy Nizar said gleefully. In the olympics, Anwar brought the super frogs who didn't seem to appear.
It's a political game which Anwar and gang supported with all the rhetorics and even the PAS ulamaks and the so-called intellectuals in DAP lend a hand.
Remember Anwar did a froggy with a 42 seats majority right after an election. He lost the game that he started, that's all there is. Give a bow and wait another three years.
Do you what's silly? To say that it's okay if did not happen but wrong if it happened.
askar melayu
Very naive argument indeed.
Nasa a frog? For heavens' sake that guy was a "trojan" horse just to give BN justification ! Who really believed he was to frog over to BN. You talk like a child. LOL
Hey did you read our post? Not all supported his ways and do you know what. What was the commitment that he made if BN frog over? To grab power? Like a child you do not know that the moment he has the power he was supposed to dissolve parliament and call for fresh elections.
But your friends BN want to keep power and actually "fear" the people (BN and PKR supporters) and my my how thick skin one can get to want to be a MB. You just have to read that guy's press statements to really laugh.
You did not answer this part did you and you really have no answer for obvious reasons.
So you prefer frog power rather than people's power??
Just watch .. BN just cannot hold on much longer not to hold a fresh election for the Perak people. All over are screaming from top to bottom until BN does so. Otherwise it would go on until the next General election 13 to have the entire country angry.
Dont think BN can stand that.
Got try ... trying to dispute me.
LOL
Quote AK47:
"The cooperation offered may be willingness by the federal government led by PM Najib to revert to status quo. That means accepting the political equation as above. It is a willingness grounded on a desire to spare the rakyat further sufferings."
1) Brilliant argument!
2) But haven't you conveniently overlooked the fact that this brouhaha and the consequent suffering rakyat was brought about by none other than BN's(Najib)ill conceived plan for a power grab?
3) The legal minds can argue till they turn blue in the face, but the fact remains that no court in a democracy should have the right to determine who forms the government. That RIGHT belongs to the citizens, to people like YOU.
Thank you for the space to comment.
Anon 00.54
"So you prefer frog power rather than people's power??" you asked?
Anwar Ibrahim answered this for you: "Tonight on the eve of Malaysia Day, we are ready to form the government tomorrow." (can you hear the super-frogs marching in?)
He was supposed to dissolve parliament when he got power? Should I cry or laugh now.
Askar Melayu...
Really I do not know whether to laugh at you or what. LOL Guess I do have a laugh.
Yes he said that! Does that mean he was not going to dissolve Parliament? Surely not. He had committed to that and there is just no way he can back out.
He said... tomorrow we shall have power your say? Sure with the frogs he could have had the power. A power he wished to cleanse from the dirtyness of frogs. At least he was committed to that.
Compare that to your beloved BN.
No comparison right? BN is even scared of its own shadow now.
Need I say more?
Yes, I am still laughing at your lack of depth in your analysis of events. LOL
To Anon 19.11
PM Najib does not, the Coalition does, politics is about public perception.
BN cannot call a vote of no confidence against Nizar cos to do so would mean they acknowledge he is the rightful MB. On the other hand they need ti prevent him from calling for a vote of confidence.
Not that simple Brader
Sakmongkol:
Many onlookers of politics, recklessly casual as usual, have barged in to pepper their comments on the Perak political saga with expletives. This is the real scourge. Faced with a conflict, the attitude of many seems to be - go out there and rage, when the problems at hand are not going to dissipate without a massive national recovery effort. It is worth reminding ourselves that politics is shaped not by a handful but by a nation.
Also, it may startle some that the antics of the competing Perak politicians could in fact be explained, and that is the expressed and enthusiastic intention of this note.
Markedly more alarming is the flippant remarks on politics and politicians that tragically fill adult conversations; these have shown no signs of abating. Must impressionable children pick up only venom from their elders as they pick their way through Malaysian politics terrain? Politics is never a by-the-way side bar. It forms every now and then knotted dead ends that shall require a gigantic mental struggle.
The following passages that form the usual thought processes shall be sorely insufficient;
Snap polls in Perak? What a bruising, costly political fisticuffs when every penny, every productive second should be channeled towards the economic revival. Would the political temperature moderate or soar after the polls? Yes, admittedly, fresh election is worth pursuing. It may present us a wonderful opportunity to move on. Or may be we have to try harder this time. Has that ever been a problem?
More pressing at this moment, with or with no elections, is try to better understand the workings of our democracy and seek to improve its conduct. We will have to think through these things.
The state of flux in Perak has so severely tested our collective political resolve. We know that already. What remains sketchy in the national consciousness is this was foisted on us by a web of circumstances that converged in a devastating manner.
It may serve as a surprise to those casual onlookers that the Perak flux is virtually not man-made; at least no one personality or groupings should be blamed for the mind-numbing impasse and legal spectacle before us.
The immediate genesis of this debacle could be traced to events preceding March 2008 elections that yielded a hung Assembly in Perak and that very sternly commanded us to calmly diagnose festering wounds and present enduring panacea. We didn’t because the nation was engulfed by the aftermath of PRU12 – everybody was preoccupied by the issue of leadership transition.
Shocks
First, let us dissect the political events in 2004-08 that shaped the outcome of PRU12. The 30 sen petrol hike in 2007 jolted the nation so profoundly that the rakyat were openly wondering if the Government knew the magnitude of its policy decisions.
People took notice of the caricature of the leadership that had its origins almost immediately after PRU11 – that the Prime Minister was not properly focused on the job. Additionally, the sniping at Tun Mahathir from the pages of New Straits Times produced after an ominous lull, a wholesome response, the proportions of which should be better left for history to measure.
Enter Tun Mahathir’s former deputy, Anwar Ibrahim. He sensed an opportunity to shake the rakyat’s faith in the institutions, for long a key plank of Pakatan’s chief ideologue. Anwar had raged against the Government and the institutions when charges against him first surfaced; bizarre that newspapers had in those tumultuous days of Sept 1998 had to present a preview of what to expect in the specifics of the Anwar case.
In 2007, Anwar moved, clinically, to define the political mood. He led a Bersih rally to stoke political emotions and plausibly to elicit a response from the Police. Was the Government trustworthy? Was it scheming to remain in power? Was corruption endemic? These were the simple posers Anwar was propagating. Amidst these seeds of uncertainties and preliminary-despair the Hindraf movement presented itself to the nation. The Malays were spooked – was the Government itself unsure of its will to safeguard the sacred interests of the Malays? Remove the Malay Agenda from the menu, and the Malays would be happy to look at other dishes with a more multi-racial taste. The spirit was therefore – we don’t think a paternalistic Government anymore. We ought to be receptive to newer, more refreshing options. Just may be, may be, we should not be on crutches anymore. At the rhetorical level, Anwar was whispering introspections. The Indians were galvanized by the Hindraf rallying call.
Near-Inertia
The nation is paying a price for near-inertia in the past..
Throughout history we talked about race relations in a hushed tone, for fear the din emanating from such a discourse would be excessive, thus turning combustible.
When Lim Chong Eu was ejected from the presidency of MCA in 1959 at the height of an intra-party debate on language and Chinese schools, we simply moved on. Tunku was not terribly excited of Chong Eu anyway. The hung Assemblies of Perak and Selangor in the May 1969 elections were somehow resolved. Our troubles just went away when everybody (well, almost) joined forces to form Barisan Nasional in 1972. Did it matter greatly if Chong Eu was Chief Minister, Penang under the ticket of BN or Gerakan as an Opposition party? Voters in Penang obviously backed the decision. Prof Syed Hussein Alatas, founding chairman of Gerakan, did not agree. His departure robbed us of promising multiracial party that was Gerakan.
Because DAP has never been truly multi-racial, the party had not a single Malay Assemblyman in Perak to be made Menteri Besar following the March 2008 elections.
Perak Needed Fresh Elections Right After 2008?
There was not a single palatable configuration that emerged after the elections. With 18 Assemblymen the DAP was always going to be overwhelmingly dominant against a Menteri Besar propped up by, what? five other Assemblymen from his own ranks. BN could have formed a relatively stable, minority Government of 28 seats but the Ruler was perfectly aware we have not the political knowledge to withstand this. In a nation dictated by communal twists to politics, Menteris Besar (thus Malays) traditionally hold the “sensitive” portfolios of land and forestry. Nizar, the Pas Menteri Besar, had to discontinue with the tradition. Pakatan was able to a certain extent assuage the concerns of its Malay supporters that this was a Government by the rakyat in the spirit of Ketuanan Rakyat. This stunning subterfuge worked.
Pakatan leaders and supporters are constantly aware their destiny with the one big Question is inching ever so close – Have we, the Pakatan, become less racialist? Race as a political equation has not vanished. Communities the world over go to war over land. Does land not wield an insidious race element in Malaysia? The hypocrisy of Ketuanan Rakyat is obviously dated. This complex nation shall require deeper thoughts than such one-line thinking. The more extensive political discourse get, the deeper the introspection, the more vulnerable Pakatan and Anwar shall become.
Nizar did not outlast Karnataka’s Deve Gowda who became the unlikely Prime Minister of India in mid-1996 despite controlling only 46 Lok Sahba seats, 18 of which from his home-State. When mighty Congress retracted its words of support, Gowda had to go.
In all fairness, DAP did not do a Congress on Nizar. He was felled by a political sleight of hand that was triggered by a quest for instant-power by Anwar Ibrahim.
Restoring Balances
Nizar nor his learned political rival from Pangkor, Dr Zambry had anything to do with the Sept 16 ambitions of Anwar or the exertions that followed. By promoting the idea of mass defections, Anwar had singlehandedly tossed onto the landscape a seismic fear, the ramifications of which were being felt beyond our shores.
Could have the Bota incident been a justifiable ruse to stop Anwar playing games? Had the Bota incident neutralized Anwar, thus restoring balances at the national level? The weak-link has always been the status of the two defecting PKR Assemblymen. They were liabilities of Anwar transferred to BN, but along with the State Government. This was not typical BN, the tweaking of power because BN allowed Nik Aziz and Pas to rule Kelantan despite its majority of one up to the March 2008 elections.
Never mind the man-made laws. There is no clarity in the sequence of legal initiatives.
Malaysians simply need to endure this Perak mess for a while longer; the alternative would have been dreadful and dire and that was to allow Anwar to carry on with the threat of usurping power at the Centre. Dr Zambry or any other politician has not been diminished as a result. Did he plan the outcome of March 2008 or the resultant Sept 16 power-grab? Dr Zambry has not faltered: yes there were loose comments every now and then taken well out of context. He should be interviewed on national television, deliver a major speech in KL, write Op-Ed pieces for the newspapers, join the debate in this blog.
Malaysians are paying the price for glossing over our frailties in the past. Perak has compelled us to pause and reflect. Why do we have a sense of being suffocated? Lack of training? Lack of mental struggle? Simplistic politics?
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