This is an amended version of the current article. I am thankful to some readers for pointing out my mistakes.
I think one reader misread what I have said in my previous article. At listing, it’s not going to be RM 4000/share. Its going to be between RM 3-4 per share. At RM4.65 with about 810 shares each, the FELDA settler in order to get another windfall of near to RM 4000, will need a premium of RM 4 over his cost. His cost per share is indeed RM 4.65 x 810. RM3766.50. RM200 processing fee.
The opening price will then have to be around RM8.65. I don't know whether that is possible. The government can persuade some big boys to play the market to push up the counter. I think that is the strategy they will use. So, the remark by one reader that the government has an ace up their sleeves will turn out prescient.
I think one reader misread what I have said in my previous article. At listing, it’s not going to be RM 4000/share. Its going to be between RM 3-4 per share. At RM4.65 with about 810 shares each, the FELDA settler in order to get another windfall of near to RM 4000, will need a premium of RM 4 over his cost. His cost per share is indeed RM 4.65 x 810. RM3766.50. RM200 processing fee.
The opening price will then have to be around RM8.65. I don't know whether that is possible. The government can persuade some big boys to play the market to push up the counter. I think that is the strategy they will use. So, the remark by one reader that the government has an ace up their sleeves will turn out prescient.
For the settlers, all they
get is RM 15,000 + maybe RM 3000-4000. That’s all. So, the RM 15,000 teaser is
prepayment to the paltry sum they get. So they jump up and down at their own
stupidity. Others not at all related to FELDA are jumping higher and they don’t
have to assemble before PM to listen to his self-righteous lecture on how the
BN government has given and done so much for the rakyat and then have some of
your brethren berated as haramjadah.
The majority
of FELDA settlers are sane people. Probably those who jumped up and down at the
FELDA gathering in Jengka a few weeks ago were the UMNO members who are also FELDA
settlers. The majority must now be asking- have we been suckered?
But the
reader was also right. At RM 200 processing fee, the underwriting banks get over
RM 22 million. Hurrah! They are all grinning like a Cheshire cat.
From the
2.18 billion shares offered for sale, FELDA community (settlers and employees)
get 200.6 million shares or 5.5%. That’s only 5.5% having the opportunity to
make as much money as those 94.5% non FELDA people as a whole and individually,
making more money than FELDA rednecks. Having done that, we then engage in the
usual supercilious talk down of why are
others envious at some FELDA folks making a bit extra or that why shouldn’t Malays
also make money from the stock market?
Look at the
numbers and don’t fudge the issue by going into the race thing. 5.5% against 94.5%.
The 94.5% people are making money as a result of those folks using the long
poles to harvest palm fruits. Who’s zooming who? Even a small child can
understand that FELDA and FELDA people have been suckered into thinking they
can make money. Others are making money. Banks are making money. New people recommended
by Boston Consulting, Hay Group and others get employed and will be paid
gargantuan salaries.
Don’t just
look at the superficialities. One reader suggested that we look at the
technicalities of the listing. We have news for this techno freak- technicalities
don’t make money for you. The fundamentals of the business do. The price of CPO
is trending down.
Look at the
business plans? What are the earth shattering breakthroughs that can earn quantum
leap profits? The first thing they do or have done was to engage consulting groups
look for the so called first rate talents. After operating for 56 years, FELDA hasn’t
been able to cultivate the foremost specialists in the business? You have to
scour the human resource market and pay consulting groups like Hay Group and
Aon Hewitt and Boston Consulting to look for people and lecture you on
organizational engineering?
Going through
the motion of tweaking the human capital component makes you think, FGV will
make money for the FELDA folks. After operating for 56 years, you need others
to tell you some business units have to be divested and some collapsed into
departments? You do everything but accomplish
nothing. Hey- that reminds me of the same description given by a former senior
minister on Najib. The hardest working PM- is a term coined by PM Najib’s
publicity people. But actually, says the former senior minister- Najib does everything
but accomplishes nothing. Motion is no substitute for substance.
Look further.
How will it earn profits and increase revenues? FGV goes into buying more land overseas
to increase acreage. What is this business? This is the upstream business – a business
which has been done successfully by FELDA Holdings through FELDA Plantations
and FELDA Palm Industries. FGV is doing the same thing which FELDA Holdings have
been doing better than the FGV overseas venture in the downstream businesses
and non-synergized businesses. You are paying good money to get other people do
the same thing you have doing successfully.
FELDA will
keep 40% of the shares. It’s selling just 60%.
Who is keeping score of the 40%? FELDA or with some vehicles created by
Cikgu Isa? I hear, those shares will be held in trust by a vehicle- FELDA Asset
Holdings Corporation( FAHC) – I hope it will not turn out to be farcical. This is
a strange creature isn’t it? It’s created as a trust fund, managing the 40%
shares held by FELDA. FELDA says it will allocate 20% of the shares of FGV or
50% in FAHC in exchange for the 51% share KPF has in FELDA Holdings. That means,
the 40% share will be divided 50:50.
So, the
peneroka through the emasculated KPF will have 50% in FAHC- an intermediary. Not
directly in FGV. So, each year FGV distributes dividends to FAHC being holder
of 40% of FGV shares and FAHC in turn distributes dividends to KPF who holds 50%
in FAHC. The quantum of the dividends will be determined by FAHC. So the
peneroka better pray hard, solat hajat
and qiamulail( night prayers the devout
among the Muslims perform) - that the dividends can match the 15% they are
getting now.
If they don’t get 15%,
maybe they should all camp outside Isa or Najib’s house to perform the butt
dance.
I won't be surprised if our children and grandchildren will remember this sad episode as the real life example of the ignorant being manipulated and taken advantage of by those who are immoral and greedy who in fact are the Malay leaders in power. In the future, the malays might even replace the proverb "menang sorak, kampung tergadai" with the more apt and actual case of "FGV bersorak, peneroka tergadai". Or more accurate will be the proverb "pangkah UMNO, UMNO belot negara" that will replace "harapkan pagar, pagar makan padi"!
ReplyDeleteBUT what is truly sad is the silence and the inaction of the rural and peneroka Malays. It truly is "the silence of the lambs" just right before the slaughter. Well, it seems true to assume that some people will not change even though their lives is at stake. Hopefully, the sons and daughter of the peneroka will avenge the injustices that has befallen their parents. That's all one can hope for!
Nick.
cape tiger.
You write as though this could be the biggest con-job of the century.
ReplyDeleteMaybe.
Only time will tell.
If the listing fails and the settlers lose money and their livelihood, then UMNO is good as dead, cremated and buried.
However, some bright spark told me that the government will have a mechanism ready to prop up the prices about RM 4.65.
I don't think this is possible? What say you?
The settlers have no say or rights.They totally trust and believe their " leaders " to take care of their best interest.
ReplyDeleteIf their long term future is not secure....this scheme/arrangement is a total disgrace.
Just because they are ignorant does not mean that they should be exploited to the fullest, especially by those in position of trust, power and influence to protect their long term interest.
Dato,why Najib and his sidekicks are bulldozing this FGVH IPO through.Because they have the most to gain in monetary terms.From Umnoputras down to crony bankers and consultants.
ReplyDeleteEverybody from politicians to the office boy with bags of ringgit in hand,laughing all the way to the bank except the settlers who are left to pick up the crumbs.And yet these settlers are jumping up and down with joy.
When the settlers finally woke up from the trance and realised that they have been had,the Umnoputras and their cronies would have already been in self exile.Being stupid and ignorant is one thing.Being banged from behind and being paid with the money stolen from them is the stupidiest thing.
Maybe we should ask the ketuahnan Melayu protectors,the prince of Perkasa Toady Abrahim and his twin Hassan to stop wasting his time searching for the talking bibles,and what they think of the Umnoputras screwing the Felda Malay settlers for free.And after they are done,also stole the kitchen sink and the lembus from them too.
You are a bit confused. The 810 shares allocated to each peneroka is paid for by the peneroka through bank financing arranged by Felda. It is not given free. He has to pay at RM4.65/share which is equal to about RM3,766. This is his COST.
ReplyDeleteLets us assume on listing day the price is around RM5.15/share (i.e a premium of 50 sen as market is talking about this level at PE of abt 13 times EPS). If he sells, this what he is going to get :
810 x RM5.15 = RM4,170. After deducting bank loan of RM3,766 he will get RM404. Less RM200 processing fee, he gets RM200 only before interest payment.
If the shares open at RM4.00 (i.e a discount of 0.65 sen/share) then, going by the same calculation, he is going to loose RM460 or RM660 if you add the RM200 processing fee.
But knowing Najib's desperate situation he will make sure the shares will not drop below issue price by using GLC's to prop it up. If the share did open below IPO price, I bet you that 80% of Felda people will not vote for him in GE 13. The stake is high for him.
Btw, 810 shares is equivalent to 8.1 lot. As 1 board lot now is 100 shares and not 1000 shares like before.
Salam bahagia Sak
ReplyDeleteThank you Musafir57 for enlightening me on Pak Man Telo ala Ponzi. Oh no, my Gramps lost lotta money for investing in the Ponzi scheme.
But I don't think I will lose in my Felda investment. After all it comes with a gomen guarantee.
Felda settlers are Najib's legacy and his favorite people. He will not want to fail them and also the Malays who are first time stock players.
From what I read Felda's prospects are buoyed by the structure of it's deal. The company is selling 2.19 billion shares at an estimated price of RM4 to RM4.65 apiece.
The shares being offered represent a maximum 63% stake in the firm and half of them are existing shares held by the state.
The firm has locked in cornerstone investors, including the Qatar Investment Authority; AIA; Fidelity; Value Partners, a Hong Kong-based funds management firm and several Malaysian state-affiliated pension funds which together will own nearly a 20% stake after the IPO.
A stake of about 11% will go to state governments, while about 13 % will be offered to foreign and domestic institutional investors. The remaining 19% stake is being offered to domestic investors employees and affiliates of the company.
CIMB, Maybank and Morgan Stanley are the joint bookrunners for the Felda IPO while the same three plus Deutsche Bank And JP Morgan Chase are the under-writers for the retail offering.
Based on this, I am jumping with joy and rubbing my hands with glee shouting money, money rolling in.
How can Najib play out the settlers who will be the determinants of his political future.
Last night I watched the U-tube of the TIBAI launch where Ezam Nor also spoke.
He said Anwar once told him Najib is the smartest of all UMNO leaders.
According to Ezam, Anu-War knows he will never oust Najib as PM. A thought I have always believed.
P.S.Dear buddy bruno. You said you want to hentam me in Sak's blog. I am in the mood for a fight. Enter please.
If it opens at IPO price of RM4.65 like you said, the peneroka will loose money. 810 x RM4.65 = RM3766 which is his cost. After deducting processing fee, commission and interest, he is going to loose money. That is why I said earlier Najib will prop it up lest he will lose 80% of Felda votes.
ReplyDeleteDato,
ReplyDeleteThe settlers are paying for the 810 shares. That is why the banks are charging RM200 processing fee for the share financing agreement. Otherwise, why are the banks involve? It is not given free like the RM15,000.
Saya setuju dengan the reader yang Dato sebut. Reader itu betul.
ReplyDeleteRasanya dato sebut dalam last article "dapat premium RM4.00 pada hari pengampungan". Maksudnya harga pada hari listing ialah RM8.65 bagi membolehkan untuk mendapat RM4.00 premium atau RM3200 untung. Mungkin Dato tak bermaksud begitu.
Kita jangan lupa yang peneroka Felda kena bayar RM3,700 bagi mendapat 810 saham. Ini dilakukan melalui pinjaman bank yang dikenakan processing fee RM200 + interest. Ini berbeza dengan RM15,000 yang diberi secara percuma. Jadi kalau harga masa hari pengampungan ialah RM4.65/saham, semua peneroka akan rugi. Mereka hanya akan dapat RM3,700 kalau dijual yang keseluruhannya akan diambil oleh bank untuk bayar hutang yang mereka ambil untuk beli saham tadi dan terpaksa pulak keluar RM200+ untuk bayar processing fee dan interest.
Kalau harga pada hari pengampungan di bawah RM4.85/saham, semua peneroka yang dapat 810 saham melalui pinjaman bank akan kerugian.
Kita lihat apa akan jadi pada 28hb Jun nanti.
Orang yang tak bersangkut paut dengan Felda akan dapat lebih. The only consolation is the 20% yang disimpan on trust bagi pihak peneroka yang membolehkan mereka dapat dividen setiap tahun. Tapi saya tidak yakin FGVB akan dapat membayar 15% dividen selepas penyenaraian nanti.
Najib Will resort to PETRONAS to bail out FGV and to continue to pay the settlers 15% Div. After all Omar Mustafa Ong and Mamak Kutty are both in PETRONAs to make sure BN is not in the hot soup.
ReplyDeleteSdr. Sakmongkol,
ReplyDeleteKPF is not in any way involved in the listing of FGV. Please get the facts correct.
KPF agreed to exchange its 51% in FHB with FGV conditionally. The conditions were rejected by Cikgu Isa because KPF would be the controlling shareholder of FGV..!
True FGV owns 49% of FHB but the 51% remains in KPF hand.
AND KPF does not hold 50% of FAHC or any companies created by Cikgu Isa.
FYI... Cikgu Isa is still trying to become Chairman of KPF by using Ismail Sabri, the Minister...
And FYI... FAHC WILL NOT BE CREATED... There is no documentary evidence to suggest that the creation is in the pipeline. FAHC exist only in Cikgu Isa's mind and mouth...
I think some factually correct scenario is very much appreciated from you.
Otherwise you are no better than those UMNO half-past six goons or Najib for that matter...
Sekian.
Listing of Felda Global signal the end of Felda 'dream' for children settlers while the vultures from Abu Dhabi,Boston,Singapore,book runners,investment bankers,UMNO agents and associate move in to plunder the riches that Felda has on it books.
ReplyDeleteUMNO has shackled the Malay mind using race and religion.
ReplyDeleteLooks like a Malay is not allowed to think even in matters relating to his soul or salvation.
UMNO has not only bestowed upon itself as the defender of race, economy and ancestral land but also the only guide that can lead Malays to heaven and everlasting life.
Thus, it bans book and condemns gay and lesbians to protect the Akidah.(whatever that means)
Dato'
ReplyDeleteAnd just look at who is conning whom!
Salam.
Dear Dato,
ReplyDeleteRecent Koperasi Permodalan Felda (KPF) AGM saw every members rejoice at the declared dividend of 18%.This was done without the need of listing effort.The chairman of KPF after declaring the dividend then stepdown.Everybody wonders now,will they enjoy the same dividend again next year?
- KPF member -
Someone wrote "as though" this is a con job. It is daylight robbery and cruelty to mankind. First one needs to understand that regardless of the price on the listing, it is a separate issue from the motives behind the listing. The motives are to dilute the settlers hold, make use of their land to gain mega bucks just from the listing exercise (listing exercise is not referring to share gains from the listing) and maintain zero risk should prices plummet because all the liabilities would be absorbed by settlers. The objection raised by Mazlan Aliman of Anak is not without valid reason. I'm just observing and has no personal interest in this matter., am not even Malay and am raising my concern as a fellow Rakyat.
ReplyDeletePrice has now been fixed at RM4.55/share (thru book-building) for institutional investors, MITI and Felda settlers and employess. Retail public investors pay 98% of that or RM4.46/share.
ReplyDeleteSettlers COST will be RM4.55 x 810 shares + RM200 = RM3885.
In order for them not to loose money, the opening price must not go below RM4.80 i.e RM4.80 x 810 = RM3,888.
Anything below, Najib will loose 80% of his fixed deposit.
To cover the bank fee, the break even price with a miniscule profit for the Felda planters is RM4.90. They will make a RM2.50 profit. How much does a bar of Kit Kat sell for in Pekan these days?
ReplyDeleteNot buying but will be watching from the sidelines. Parangs will be out for Najib if we don't see at least RM4.90.
Don't count the chicks before hatching. Everybody here seems to assume a sound premium upon listing.
ReplyDeleteYa, that's what they have to maintain to convince the FELDA people.
There is a moratorium on the shares held by the cornerstone investors for 6 months. The price thereafter would reflect the actual condition without any price-support mechanism. FELDA has many subsidiaries involved in trading, transport, travel etc. But the only solid asset is the plantation land.
Market prices for commodities are never stable. So the future of FELDA depends on the actual yield on plantation.
The other subsidiaries will start to siphon the coffers of the holding company in the usual parlance of 'related party transactions '. There goes the leakage. Poor FELDA !
Individu atau company (bukan GLC) yang ada cable politik mungkin dapat lebih pada 1 juta saham dari MITI. Kalau mereka dapat 2 juta saham dan harga listing RM5.00/saham mereka akan dapat untung sebanyak RM900,000 sekelip mata (RM5.00-RM4.55 = 0.45 sen x 2 juta saham).
ReplyDeletePeneroka Felda akan terlopong dengan angka-angka ini.
Dato,with so many cornerstone investors line up,the stupid dunggus behind FGVH thinks that they can control and set the price of the shares.
ReplyDeleteWith most of the shares remaining under the GLC's and cornerstone investors,whose shares are locked up for six months.And with only a few percent of the shares under the public which are tradable,it is usually the strong hands who have the upperhand.
So these crooks think that they will look good the first few days or weeks,because they will be able to support and push the share prices.
But eventually the market forces will take over and have its way,and these crooks will learn sooner than later that it is better not to mess with the markets.Like people like to say the "markets are always right".
When the listing of the FGVH on June 28th finally arrived,the stock markets which have had a good run these past couple of weeks will be ripe for a correction.That will be around the time of the FGVH IPO.During market corrections it is very difficult to push stock prices up much.
So there is little chance for the settlers or public to sell their shares and have a killing.The most is they will end up having nasi kandar at the mamak stalls.EventuallY the FGVH shares will be caught by the big grizzly who has emerged from hibernation.
After November upwards,if shareholders who are still holding onto their shares because of the weak prices will be stuck,when the fat lady finally sings.Because after the US presidential elections,most probably the world markets will tanked.
According to prospectus the expected earning per share (EPS) is 40 sen. At issue price of RN4.55, the PE ratio is about 11 times. Analyst reckoned fair value of about 13 times EPS giving a target price of about RM5.20/share.
ReplyDeleteAt this price and with a breakeven of RM4.80/share, peneroka will make a meagre RM324 out of 810 shares they own. At this price, the CEO will make RM80,000 as the the number of shares allocated to him is 200,000 units.
After 6 months, unless the crude palm price stays at current level or move up, the cornerstone investors will start to unload their shares. Those who hold on will get their fingers burnt.
Quite Despair,
ReplyDeleteoh my buddy buddy QD.You must really be a born true believer of Umnoputra economics.Your gramp's will be really dissapointed that you haven't learn the bitter lesson she has endured and gone through.Did your gramps scolded or smack your sore face when they heard that you were jumping up and down like a chimpanzee about the FGVH shares that you were thinking of buying.Hahaha.I guessed so.
'But I don't think that I will lose in my Felda investment.Afterall it comes with a gomen gurantee".What gomen gurantee?Did I hear of anybody including QD,betting the ranch on FGVH.Those thinking of doing so better have an alternative plan for other accomodations in place.
Cornerstone investors bah bah bah.Even one of the world's best investor's and richest man Warren Buffet could not even lift a finger to help FGVH if the world markets have a meltdown.Hehehe.
He(Najib)will not fail them and also the Malays who are first time stock players.The old boys at PNB(not khazanah,as it wasn't born yet)will be LOL amid some tears though.
Ezam your idol,buddy.For crying out loud a smart alec like my QD,cannot find somebody better that that froggie.How about that somebody that goes around for 200k a pop.Hahaha.Cheers buddy.
Best buddy Bruno
ReplyDeleteGramps is my grandpa. Grandma is Nanna. He got back his money aftet Madoff agrees to return US 70 billion to all investors which includes corporate personalities and film-stars.
That's the beauty of America. I wonder whether Pak Man Telo did the same.
Warren Buffet is not buying FB shares. So why should he buy felda's IPO.
Gramps is all for me buying shares. He subscribes to the belief no risk, no gain.
I suppose you have my best interest at heart. Just wish me the best. I hope to gain some money because I will be going back in the fall.
Boston Consulting, Hay Group. These were among the consultants that MAS engaged in early 2000 together with Binafikir to turnaround the company. Boston Consulting took care of the airline's network, Hay Group was tasked to identify talents and Binafikir of course crafted the Worldwide Asset Unbundling (WAU).
ReplyDeleteGood luck FELDA!
Quiet Despair,
ReplyDeletebuddy QD,last I read investors of Madoff will be lucky if they can get 30 cents to the dollar.Could be 15-25 cents to the dollar if the lawyer in charge could dig more trails of where the money is.
Of course I have your best interest and all the small investors who will be investing in FGVH or any companies with crooked politicians involved.
Do not forget MAS which is still recently fresh on the headlines.BBMB,MISC and many others including blue chips Sime Darby has not been spared.Even Petronas will soon be pokkai.But maybe you were to young to remember or like the Dr said,Malays tend to have poor memories.
Dato, in the light of this FGVH listing exercise, let me just mention Public Choice Theory (PCT) in Economics, to put into perspective the disquiet and anxiety many of us have had from the day the listing was first proposed. Were it not because of the questionable presence of a few 'outside' players and the equally questionable removal of key FELDA operatives this matter would not have aroused the growing dissatisfaction and anger among those who feel that the government has not handled the matter ‘ with clean hands'.
ReplyDeleteOne of the leading exponents of PCT, James Buchanan of James Mason University in Virginia, won the Nobel Prize for Economics (1986) for, briefly put, 'proving that Government bureaucrats, or even employees in big private companies anywhere, tend to care more about their own comforts, benefits and salaries than they care about the taxpayers or customers they are supposed to serve.'
Dr Lim Ewe Ghee of Yale University and ex- Senior IMF Economist, now back in Penang after 23 years, writing in Forum of Edge 27 Feb 2012 Edition, asserts that "..bureaucrats /politicians will behave in consistent ways. Bureaucrats will strive to advance their careers and politicians, to be re-elected. Both seek to advance their power - bureaucrats by gaining bigger budgets and politicians by funding policies and projects that favour their political allies. PCT views politicians as advancing policies to get elected - they do not get elected in order to advance policies - although the layman is usually informed that policies and budgets are advanced purely in the national interest."
Even more worrying is 'rent-seeking' behaviour which generates its own momentum,"..., most insidious of all, when rent-seeking becomes widespread, is that more and more in society - seeing the large rewards - want in."
Dr Lim goes on,"The lesson of PCT is that people in government are self-interested human beings like everyone else - they are not angels. This simple insight underlies the analytics of rent-seeking but also suggests that changing the identities of the people who hold public office will not, in general, make for much better government. Of course, having unprincipled, undisciplined semi-literate fools and flunkies in public office is the worst possible scenario and could lead to the most egregious of transgressions imaginable but electing better people will not by itself create better policy outcomes if the system's incentives are bad."
So this 5.5% against 94.5% division fits neatly with PCT behaviour, unpretentiously described as ‘politics without romance’ by James Buchanan, i.e. everything is about making more money in the shortest possible time, emotions are for sentimental fools. Put in another way: the City always overwhelms the Village because the head always beats the heart.
Untuk nusa, bangsa dan agama? No, I don't think so. Untuk yang pintar dan licin? Certainly, given all the major scandals and billions lost, or stashed overseas. One thing must be clear to all politicians now and that is, you don’t behave, we throw you out in the next G.E. Race and religion don’t work their magic anymore.
RALAT: James Mason University ...should read George Mason University...
ReplyDeleteDear Sakmongkol
ReplyDeleteI will not get into the numbers. I want to just concentrate on concepts.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong about FGV going public. The question is, who gains and for what purpose? We can see that of the new shares and those that FELDA Corporation sells, the majority goes to institutions that have nothing to do with the settlers. Everyone should remember that Felda is all about the settlers, on whose shoulders Felda is built. Felda exist to help them. Now the fruits of their labour are shared with people who have nothing whatsoever to do with the settlers and the land.
If the government genuinely wants to help the settlers long term then it should not distribute the RM15,000 cash, which will quickly be used up. Instead the government should give the equivalent value in FGV shares to KPF so that KPF will hold a higher percentage of FGV, and therefore get more dividends in the long term. It also increases KPF’s control over FGV.
Lastly, what is this nonsense about FELDA Asset Holding trying to exchange half (i.e. 20% in FGV) for KPF’s 51% in Felda Holdings, the major earning arm of FGV? This is all a trick to get the settlers through KPF to part with their 51%. If the settlers fall for this trick, they would have parted with their precious 51% in Felda Holdings and yet do not control FGV, and neither would they control of FELDA Asset Holdings. They would only have 50% of FAH.
Najib and Isa and the government are really not interested to help the settlers long term. They want to con the settlers to part with their 51% share in Felda Holdings using the RM15,000 cash bait, which serves also as an election bribe. They are despicable and diabolical. I am glad people like you are exposing this scam. Pity the setters.