tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post1439491515052931470..comments2024-03-14T19:25:05.015+08:00Comments on SAKMONGKOL AK47: Malay and Chinese PoliticsAriff Sabrihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04134536173557859031noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-42693619564416786232009-02-05T07:21:00.000+08:002009-02-05T07:21:00.000+08:00Eyes Wide Open,I should have ended my 02:03 commen...Eyes Wide Open,<BR/><BR/>I should have ended my 02:03 comment by saying let's discuss the subject of where everybody should contribute more.<BR/><BR/>I look forward to it.<BR/><BR/>Best wishes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-33352816296715770572009-02-05T02:03:00.000+08:002009-02-05T02:03:00.000+08:00Eyes Wide Open, Your comments at 03:45 above inclu...Eyes Wide Open, <BR/><BR/>Your comments at 03:45 above include some interesting observations.<BR/><BR/>I am interested in your reaction to my comments (no ill intention, only observations) in Dato's continuation of this posting,<BR/>"Malay and Chinese Politics (2)".<BR/><BR/>Here are additional comments for the purpose of discussion and mutual understanding and, hopefully, they will provide some Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-28920821719076151062009-02-03T15:55:00.000+08:002009-02-03T15:55:00.000+08:00gwlnetyou said - "Such description paints a p...gwlnet<BR/><BR/>you said - "Such description paints a picture of superiority, whether subtly & unconsciously!"<BR/><BR/>Let's not throw out wild accusations. Please quote me where I gave that impression of superiority.<BR/><BR/>You, on the other hand, unflinchingly state (is it subtly & unconsciously?):<BR/><BR/>"one has to look inwards to the Confucian wisdom, which r Eyes Wide Openhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05367590620303779137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-16458503657070564132009-02-03T11:27:00.000+08:002009-02-03T11:27:00.000+08:00Eyes Wide Open,This is not the place to argue abou...Eyes Wide Open,<BR/><BR/>This is not the place to argue about yr or my understanding of '士、农、工、商 - shi, nong, gong, shang'.<BR/><BR/>Do a google about that phrase will throw up a lot of of scholastic write-ups for U to contest about!<BR/><BR/>The point HERE is Malay & Chinese 'business-sense' within the Malaysia setup.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't go into all that U have subscribedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-21023116386601419972009-02-03T11:03:00.000+08:002009-02-03T11:03:00.000+08:00gwlnetYou didn't read my post clearly enough.My fi...gwlnet<BR/><BR/>You didn't read my post clearly enough.<BR/><BR/>My first assertion was that Confucianist culture demanded that the Chinese not disgrace their ancestors but bring greater honour by making something of themselves. And that this thinking is embedded even in the modern Chinese psyche. I ended my point there.<BR/><BR/>My 2nd point was about how that thinking EVOLVED into "pursue more Eyes Wide Openhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05367590620303779137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-23367090306800512362009-02-03T09:27:00.000+08:002009-02-03T09:27:00.000+08:00Eyes Wide Open,Based on the traditional Chinese te...Eyes Wide Open,<BR/><BR/>Based on the traditional Chinese teaching of<BR/><BR/>士、农、工、商 - shi, nong, gong, shang<BR/><BR/>the businessman is always at the bottom of the hierarchy! They r been looked DOWN in the Chinese society.<BR/><BR/>This trend is start to change within modern Chinese societies throughout the world. More so in current China!<BR/><BR/>Thus, if one has to look inwards to the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-25262854345994157482009-02-03T03:45:00.000+08:002009-02-03T03:45:00.000+08:00Dato'Another brilliant post!Just to give a lit...Dato'<BR/><BR/>Another brilliant post!<BR/><BR/>Just to give a little more Chinese perspective on your analysis.<BR/><BR/>1) Chinese motivation. The Confucian/Chinese value of family is so demanding that it is actually part of the Taoist religion, where ancestors must be worshipped. <BR/><BR/>The mentality of the more traditional-values Chinese is that if they do not make something of their Eyes Wide Openhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05367590620303779137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-54439233413020142752009-02-02T22:21:00.000+08:002009-02-02T22:21:00.000+08:00Maybe it's the 'pendatang' stigma that is attached...Maybe it's the 'pendatang' stigma that is attached to the non-Malays drives them to work harder than the rest and thus make something of their efforts. The past immigrants came with nothing and some managed to build empires. Look at the Irish in the US... also most millionaires in the UK are not English, with many Asians in the billionaires' club.<BR/><BR/>Malays have thrived elsewhere too, so Sammyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07875768296412463654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-91615259077788345632009-02-02T17:27:00.000+08:002009-02-02T17:27:00.000+08:00its a balancing act and the Malays now have more p...its a balancing act and the Malays now have more parties to vote for,,,and UMNO must by now realise it.<BR/>its no more a Malay issue but an UMNO problem that you should talk about. its a party issue if you were to ask me. lets not mix this two subject as one.<BR/>similarly for the Chinese, its an MCA problem.<BR/>we in Malaysia have more to choose from now onwards and its good, if we all look atAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-82033984290927281232009-02-02T17:06:00.000+08:002009-02-02T17:06:00.000+08:00By the yardstick provided in this post, I can be c...By the yardstick provided in this post, I can be considered successful because I consciously chosen to take my periuk nasi and gamble it out.<BR/><BR/>I once worked with our national oil company, a solid 11 years. When I decided to move to a multinational oil company that have been operating in Malaysia for a hundred years, I was told that my needs as a Muslim will not be taken care of in the MNCIr. Hanafi Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09968863774056195660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-63018735177669192182009-02-02T16:26:00.000+08:002009-02-02T16:26:00.000+08:00I'm thrilled with this theory: "Those Malays who a...I'm thrilled with this theory: <I>"Those Malays who are successful are those who are willing to conduct revolutionary change in their politics."</I><BR/><BR/>That's because of "vested interests". You see, if you are right - and I'm praying hard that you are - then *I* am on the road to "Successful-dom"!<BR/><BR/>I've been a hardcore Pas supporter since 1983 - the type that went all out to "make Mat Cendanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14912016111197047017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-43908106796618929012009-02-02T15:42:00.000+08:002009-02-02T15:42:00.000+08:00Dear DatoI accidentally bumped into your blog coup...Dear Dato<BR/><BR/>I accidentally bumped into your blog couple of months ago and since then your blog is under my must read list. I'm quite surprise to find that there are hidden gems in UMNO like yours truly. If only you were one of the current line up we have today, UMNO definitely will be in better shape. Your views are what is missing from today's political scene.<BR/><BR/>I will not hesitateAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-48669521339042140462009-02-02T15:38:00.000+08:002009-02-02T15:38:00.000+08:00Salam Tok Sak,Brilliant! ... to a certain extent i...Salam Tok Sak,<BR/>Brilliant! ... to a certain extent it explains the pervasiveness of the "tongkat mentality". This begs the question of how to change the Malays' over-dependence on the Govt./UMNO? Is it in our genes? By not voting for UMNO, maybe? Maybe not? And now the "circus" in Perak! As I said Tok, Melayu tak habis2 dengan berpolitik! Its in our blood! (Kena buat blood transfusion!)...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-4316760335657512882009-02-02T14:14:00.000+08:002009-02-02T14:14:00.000+08:00my comment as to why i feel malays have to be more...my comment as to why i feel malays have to be more enthusiastic abt politics is essentially cos malay politicians (when they acquire their position of strength) hv a slash and burn mentality when it comes to their own race but a more commercial attitude when dealing with the other races.<BR/>And anyone who is in business can attest that the demand and supply chain in many industries are kuldeephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04860432336909833363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-54219058818768011712009-02-02T13:02:00.000+08:002009-02-02T13:02:00.000+08:00One of the many factors of Chinese success has bee...One of the many factors of Chinese success has been ...patience.<BR/><BR/>Many townships example were first started by Chinese in the middle of nowhere. As townships grew, many more shop houses are built and these at first are not well patronised ...but these Chinese still bought them and do their business. <BR/><BR/>In time these because busy areas as the townships grew.<BR/><BR/>Ask yourself...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-53498253153600196762009-02-02T12:58:00.000+08:002009-02-02T12:58:00.000+08:00Bro SakOnce again, you have touched upon an intere...Bro Sak<BR/><BR/>Once again, you have touched upon an interesting issue. I have no thesis at this point. I will just make an observation that I am still pondering over.<BR/><BR/>The Chinese (whether in Malaysia, the wider diaspora or mainland China) appear to have a preponderant concern that the "next generation" have a "better life" than they presently do (the inverted commas suggest that de minimishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06478671079348612565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-27790052131179242232009-02-02T12:43:00.000+08:002009-02-02T12:43:00.000+08:00I agree.I agree.Ir. Hanafi Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09968863774056195660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-64543740599629524472009-02-02T12:35:00.000+08:002009-02-02T12:35:00.000+08:00Dato,Is it also safe to add that the Chinese do no...Dato,<BR/>Is it also safe to add that the Chinese do not deliberately go into politics to get rich?<BR/><BR/>But their association with politics is only out of necessity to obtain contracts given out by those politicians in power as mentioned by kuldeep.<BR/><BR/>And at the end of the day it still comes back making money, the only thing they are loyal too.<BR/><BR/>If Malays are left to be, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-17134853666818785942009-02-02T12:31:00.000+08:002009-02-02T12:31:00.000+08:00Dato Sak,Maybe the Malay obsession with politics i...Dato Sak,<BR/>Maybe the Malay obsession with politics is b'cos it ensures power to the holder of political office, & directly opportunites to create wealth and economic benefits; whilst the chinese would have to slog to put food on the table. How the chinese create wealth is another question altogether.A.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12030760958657418417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-24219217512465197042009-02-02T10:50:00.000+08:002009-02-02T10:50:00.000+08:00Every time there's a regime change within UMNO the...Every time there's a regime change within UMNO there will also be changes in the bumiputera business scene.Where is Dato Ibrahim of Promet,the Daim boys,the Anwar boys.?.and it goes on.But the Chinese tycoons remains in place.Do you think that the Chinese tycoons do not get their breaks from govt concessions,licenses or contracts?<BR/>And do u think that the Chinese tycoons are so good that they kuldeephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04860432336909833363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-29371840676160860162009-02-02T10:19:00.000+08:002009-02-02T10:19:00.000+08:00i believe dato in perak's case, we need to do it.....i believe dato in perak's case, we need to do it...<BR/><BR/>setiap hari...hak bangsa dan tanah air kita tergadai di sana...<BR/><BR/>perlukah kita tunggu 5 tahun baru nak ambil balik...<BR/><BR/>remember...ini bukan kedah dan kelantan yang mana ketuanan kita tidak terusik!KELAB PEMUDA JIWA LUKAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16229670814272976954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-74284184513304066582009-02-02T10:00:00.000+08:002009-02-02T10:00:00.000+08:00I think the first writer has a point. I know of lo...I think the first writer has a point. I know of local malays(not one but 2) who declared that they preferred workers from the kelantan malays or the indon malays. The kelantan malays she was referring to are those from thailand - the pattanis. <BR/><BR/>Why such preference ? Aren't they from the supposedly the same cultural mould ? <BR/><BR/>Cultural mould is one but I think more important and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-80269843667038476932009-02-02T09:14:00.000+08:002009-02-02T09:14:00.000+08:00anon at 9:00.true...but there is a sequel to this ...anon at 9:00.<BR/>true...but there is a sequel to this article.<BR/>which begins with:<BR/>Or we(the Malays) will change them ourselves. <BR/>i am not going to be drawn into defining who the Malays are as per yr challenge. in ancient time, the Malay world encompasses more than just present day Malaysia. <BR/>the intonation of your short comments suggest a kind of racial superiority by suggesting Ariff Sabrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04134536173557859031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1604477176521753208.post-71624737909210527122009-02-02T09:00:00.000+08:002009-02-02T09:00:00.000+08:00The Malays are just confused people. Torn between ...The Malays are just confused people. Torn between religion (Islam) and culture. Malay's culture are mostly derive from Hindu. The Malays were Hindus before Islam came to Tanah Melayu.Hence, the Malays are already parted between those who "religious-practicely" and those who are "cultural-inclined". The strangers with mixed identity thats what Malays are! Even, anyone may ask, who are Malays? ArabAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com